All I am saying is that people asked for a less humanoid type. Of the types of examples used for the race choice, they were all pretty human.
Tonberry would be a nice choice since it looks less human than any race right now.
You say there isn't much to defend my arguement, but there's isn't alot of reasons for not to be playable either.
They are silent, yet they are caster jobs mostly. Chocobos can be black mages, as well as any other job. How can it be an archer/bard? Yet no one talks about that ruining their immersion.
Tonberries at least had hands to wield weapons. And I bet it would take less time to make their armor than it would a chocobo companion.
They aren't playable characters and are antagonists, yet you can somewhat control one in FFXIII-2.
Tonberry, as a playable race.
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10-31-2012, 01:55 AMJinrya-Geki
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10-31-2012, 02:12 AMElexia
I think XIII-2 is an exception given you can control most enemies in general including things like Omega.
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10-31-2012, 02:20 AMJinrya-Geki
Yeah, figures when I use XIII as an example people ignore it. When they want to prove a point against me, they use it.
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10-31-2012, 02:46 AMFironIt wont happen get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
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10-31-2012, 03:07 AMJinrya-Geki
I am over it. I just dislike it when people say "it can't happen cause of this", yet it happened in previous games.
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10-31-2012, 03:16 AMZantetsuken
Up Next:
[Request] Slugs, as a playable race.
http://zam.zamimg.com/images/f/d/fd3...ef97e9eb0e.jpg -
10-31-2012, 03:19 AMElexiaI like it as much as the next person, but you have to think about the system that it uses, it even allows you to control a super boss in a lot of FF games lol, that's why I consider it an exception due to the fact you can control everything, even optional characters like Sazh, Lightning and Nabaat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki
So it's not to "use it against" your idea, it's just you can't use it as a basis given that the system itself was a lot more expansive. For example we're clearly not going to get Behemoths as a playable race, but we controlled the hell out of them in XIII-2. -
10-31-2012, 03:20 AMUndrentide
no to Tonberries - whatever next - people wanting to be playable malboros and peistes?
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10-31-2012, 03:45 AMShougunThey would make the best escape goats...Quote:
Originally Posted by Zantetsuken
Everyone run to zone we screwed up!
As for beast races we already have like 4 main beast races you could include. If a beast race happens they should be first. (Mamool ja, that other competing one... (Kind of draconic :P), goblins, qiqirins). -
10-31-2012, 04:17 AMMatsumeOkay, so I spaced out your wall of text for the sake of clarification and have encountered a number of argumentative errors in the way you try to build your arguments against Tonberries as a playable raceQuote:
Originally Posted by RoxyLalonde
So I'm going to chop it up and try and make sense of it all while addressing each of your concerns along the way by bringing up solutions to each problem:
Thesis:
1st Argument: Lack of LanguageQuote:
A tonberry playable race would be a serious detriment to the current and proposed future state of immersion into the game.
Tonberries are silent, but that does not mean they are incapable of a high form of intelligence. I will even go as far to say that, given the ability to speak, silence can be considered the most intelligent route to take. It may just be that Tonberries are so much more intelligent than the other Eorzean races that they prefer not to communicate with them let alone meddle in their petty trifles...Quote:
Tonberry's have always been a minimally verbal race if not completely non verbal in some games.
As seen in the case of the beastmen tribes, Moogle's Sylphs Amal Ixal Cobal all are fairly verbal but lack distinctly humanoid features to the taste of Eorzean's. So much so that they aren't even considered to be worthy of burial or mercy.
2nd Argument: Foe not Friend
Perhaps the Tonberry race are the keeper of last magical arts and arcane knowledge capable of great power for both life and destruction. Maybe that the Tonberry race had been persecuted in a distant past era for any number of reasons and so have grown to fear the other races and spite them. They might just be aggressive out of fear for past harm inflicted upon them by our ancestors' ancestors and are willing to sacrifice themselves if it means keeping their civilization a secret and inaccessible to outsiders privy to prey on the slow...Quote:
They have almost always been an antagonist to all living things as well.
13-2 allows you to capture monsters and convert them to your side but they are converted there is no inherent urge in the tonberry's created nature to want to assist people. Tonberry's main action and goal seems to be to stab things and watch them die while moving incredibly slow.
3rd Argument: Lack of Humanity
Tonberries are humanoid creatures as is. They have the sensory organs of most animals including but not limited to eyes, ears, noses, mouths, and hands with opposable thumbs. So there would be no need to further humanize them. Besides, I've never seen an official post claiming that non humanoid features are to be eliminatedQuote:
Tonberry would require a transformation into a human like creature, because they are removing non-humanoid features from the races.
it would require the tonberry(humanoid) race to then develop and foster relations with said primary 5 races as to allow them to freely live breathe and have equal rights in these races cities, while not negating the fact that the 5 races are also highly bigoted and racist against anything besides cat girls (who do in their defense have high verbal skills as well as mostly humanoid forms)
4th Argument: Lack of Lore
Ultimately it comes down to developing a lore that gives suitable and just reason to the playability of that race.Quote:
It would also require some lore to turn it INTO this humanoid creature.
.. but not only that it would also by virtue require this method to give them enough time to build a city and society with basic principles and development of battle arts and magic either through cultural diffusion from the primary 5 races or by self discovery.
There is no reason why the Tonberry race could not have retreated to a secluded part of the land and locked themselves away from contact with other civilizations, all the while developing a superior form of intelligence and a highly complex society.
They could even be the ambassadors of Arcanists, despite the guild already being in Uldah. However SE could claim the reason that the Arcanist guild has heretofore been inaccessible is that there were no Tonberries to profess the ancient arts.
Or maybe Tonberry will be the ones to teach us how to capture and summon the primals. I think that any race with such knowledge and ability would quickly be coveted and well treated by the societies you depict as racist and bigoted in hopes of learning how to gain such power.
Conclusion:
I don't think your Arguments defend your conclusion in any cohesive way, shape or form. Your only valid claim is that there is a lack of lore to enlighten the mysteries of the Toberry race and give reason enough to make them a playable race.Quote:
Thusly the implementation of a tonberry race would be highly difficult and they would be an undercast and mistreated segment of the Eorzean population that would be trash to them.
If tonberry's suddenly popped up it would annoy everyone due to the fact it would break highly from the common characteristics this game has been appreciated for.
That in itself is the solution: simply provide a rich background such as my above mentioned solutions and I am sure they would be accepted in Eorzean society. After all we will be entering the 7th umbral era, a time of post apocalyptic devastation in which all tribes must put their differences aside and band together for survival. What better timing?
TLDR: If Qiqirin get to be seriously considered, then it would only be fair that Tonberry too.