Evolved BRD ?

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Originally Posted by xbahax92

Bard has become basically a non proc job. And I dont know about you all, but imo they've removed to many skills. Skills that gave me a decision. Paean was still useful in m12s for example. The overall oGCD pool has been reduced.
My biggest issue however, it has been toned down to "press 3 songs to unleash big pp skill". Gauge management has been toned down as well. I dont see how this gameplay is supposed to feel satisfying. It's stressfree sure... But in exchange for what?

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You're right, if they remove the rng out of bard, I can be a big enjoyer of the evolved system however I want, I'll hate them eternally for that. They already pulled that kind of shit to a lot of other rng classes, enough is enough.

So can bard only aoe consistently during 1 song or are all its attack aoe now?

It seems all attacks have done AoE now. Which makes sense, FFXIV doesn't really use mezzes or CC in general.

Short disclaimer: I don't play hardcore content nor am I a big number cruncher, so I cannot speak about any meta or stuff occuring at a harder level that might be more relevant to some. I am also going to say "skill" for general "button thing you press", not in the meaning of weaponskills specifically.


Personally I like the general idea of being able to use the three songs more freely (if I understand this correctly) based on group utility. However, I dislike how playing a song unlocks just very long combos.
I don't mind losing the procs, they never were a part of the core identity to me, but playing fairly freeform except the weird song timing was. (Cutting one short for the sake of it and being locked into what ever order you chose at the beginning unless there's downtime is what I mean with "weird"). I have my toolkit and can press whatever suits the situation. If a thing procs, cool! If it doesn't, oh well, guess I press a different button. That is why I considered this job quite freeform already.

Activating strict combos seems to be the opposite of this to me.

I'd rather have the songs being used more like stances.
(Random numbers for explanations sake, not actual skill numbers bc. I cba to count them)

Let's say there are 15 non-song skills in a bard's toolkit, and the three songs.

Song A unlocks skill 1-5 you can play however you so choose.
Song B unlocks skill 6-10 you can play however you so choose.
Song C unlocks skill 11-15 you can play however you so choose.

(Or maybe 1-3 are being unlocked with Song A, and 4 and 5 can be procs under specific circumstances or change like that new PLD version of Clemency, based on target. Could be fun and go more into single target support, as long as this doesn't end up replacing shield healers.)

You'd essentially have three small toolkits and the songs would determine which ones you can access. You would still have this situational spin you get from having to choose which song or song-related toolkit suits the situation the best but would preserve the whole "freeform"-ish idea, in my opinion at least.

As said, how much this would be of a help or a hindrance in Savage or Ultimates, I have no clue. But "you can press Song A and then five buttons in the same specific order until you're out of that" is as far from freeform as you can go. Unless I fundamentally misunderstood the system they presented, it's even more rigid than the current version, just a different flavour of that.

Edit: I realized half a day later that choosing songs in the current Evolved iteration isn't truly freeform either because you have to have played all three different songs for Radiant Finale or miss out on this skill entirely. Please change that into playing three songs of any kind! Otherwise it's just the illusion of choice considering it already barely makes a difference for Summoner when choosing their summons.

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Originally Posted by Minali

As said, how much this would be of a help or a hindrance in Savage or Ultimates, I have no clue. But "you can press Song A and then five buttons in the same specific order until you're out of that" is as far from freeform as you can go. Unless I fundamentally misunderstood the system they presented, it's even more rigid than the current version, just a different flavour of that.

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No, you understood it completely correct. The new system is more strict than what we currently have. In the current "meta" BRD uses Minuet > Ballad > Paeon in almost every fight, but there is leeway and freeform ways to play it based on what you are doing. There is a group doing speedkills of the current tier and the BRD in their party plays COMPLETELY differently than the "expected" rotation for the job in its current state because of buffs and setting up specific things for optimal boss timings not even related to the 2 minute windows. All of that optimization is now gone with Evolved mode, every single fight will always be "hit a song > do a few GCDs > leave song" There is never any nuance to that. There was also incentive to play the job differently based on when the boss would be targetable or how dots lined up, also more player reaction and player freedom being stripped away.

So you missed the part where new songs add either runspeed, regen or shield and hence you want to use them at specific times (not even end-to-end, hence the shared 20s CD with charges). You want to pool resource and time GCDs so you got the correct reactionary support ability up at the right time for the right boss ability.

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Originally Posted by StarryVera

I hope you enjoy Endwalker SMN, cause that's what it looks like we're getting. And if that's the direction they are planning on taking evolved jobs, we are in for the most boring time this game has.

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More doom and gloom. I love it, lol.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

More doom and gloom. I love it, lol.

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Also missing the part where the underlying concept of current Summoner was quite clearly taken from current Bard. xD

They could have changed whatever they wanted about bard (remove dots, change how songs worked, etc.), but the ONE thing I wanted to remain was procs. Genuinely upset at this preview, and I'm hoping they backtrack on their decision to remove procs. I do like how songs seem more "supportive," but it looks more strict and lego-like (ala EW summoner). The only song that needed a true re-work was army's paean, which they could have given the summoner-gameplay while the other 2 songs have procs.

Off-topic: It's so odd how many players are celebrating the fact that bard is about to become... not-bard (no more multitasking, no procs, no EA management, etc.). We have 20+ other jobs, but let's just ruin the identity of a unique job and make it so people who don't enjoy bard can enjoy it. Meanwhile, those who do enjoy bard get screwed over. I'm all for major shake-ups, but completely redefining a job's identity isn't really a shake-up- it's removing the job altogether.

Yeah although I will say I feel all current proc-involving classes (Bard, Dancer, Red Mage and to a minor degree Monk and Reaper) have kinda the "wrong" type of proc? As they provide no meaningful gameplay impact, their designs have been "flattened" so to speak. To ensure they cannot ever mess with overall procession of the rotation and hence cannot ever mess with the 120s meta.

Of course, I fully agree that this should then if anything imply that now that the 120s meta is FINALLY kicking the bucket, now would be the time to actually have meaningful procs meaningfully alternating gameplay flow and rotational timings and flow again. Now is the chance! And they're not doing that. I don't mind losing the current procs at all. Like I said, I feel they already provide more or less exactly zero value. But I am sad we're not getting valuable procs instead.