7.2 "formula" for Savage needs to CHANGE

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

I can't talk for others but when it comes to me, I don't need a company to hold my hand and tell me what I am allowed or not to do or how I should spend my own free time. I also think it's fair to either increase the starting cap or dismantle the entire restriction, to begin with, considering there are so many jobs. Also, they should allow to have multiple builds/ gear sets of the same kind. I can still roll on every single loot (since it's in a box) even if I don't need it, so ninja loot prevention is utterly useless.

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Removing the cap would have a lot of side-effects. If there was no tome cap, you'd see ridiculously high gear requirements in week 1 PF and huge portions of the fights would be skipped due to players being massively overgeared before even starting. Savage is tuned for crafted gear and is pretty boring once you gain a few item levels and the mit/heal/dps requirements are much lower (if not non-existent).

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Removing the cap would have a lot of side-effects. If there was no tome cap, you'd see ridiculously high gear requirements in week 1 PF and huge portions of the fights would be skipped due to players being massively overgeared before even starting. Savage is tuned for crafted gear and is pretty boring once you gain a few item levels and the mit/heal/dps requirements are much lower (if not non-existent).

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Fair point but I still don't think it will even matter. People can already do that or after a few weeks as well, so the entire system is just bad to begin with. Also even now after 6 months I still see m1s with req none or 710, considering that you can effectively be around 725 (?). (Jeuno + upgraded crafted gear + COD)
Not to mention, you can just do week 1 and be BiS if you want (I know cases too).

I still dont see what’s the problem with tomestone cap/savage loot lockout ?

I hope every person that have a problem with it, have all ultimate cleared on multiple jobs (on patch) ?

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Originally Posted by Kohashi

Fair point but I still don't think it will even matter. People can already do that or after a few weeks as well, so the entire system is just bad to begin with. Also even now after 6 months I still see m1s with req none or 710, considering that you can effectively be around 725 (?). (Jeuno + upgraded crafted gear + COD)
Not to mention, you can just do week 1 and be BiS if you want (I know cases too).

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Yes, people already do that but with the current tome cap, that only forces people to take 3 hunt trains for the 450 cap before they raid. The mandatory weekly power grind is short and painless.

You're also ignoring the fact that you don't even need the gear. There is no use for tome/savage gear for a full 4 months after the savage tier releases when ultimate releases. If you don't prog ultimate on content, i.e. 99.99% of the people complaining about lockout/cap, then there is no use for savage/tome gear ever. Savage is tuned for crafted gear. Anything beyond that is overgeared and trivialises the content.

People aren't setting ilvl restrictions on PFs on prog parties at this point in the tier 1) because they're clueless and that's why they're progging M1S 6 months into the patch cycle and 2) because the majority are so absurdly overgeared that it doesn't matter any more.

You can't be BiS after 1 week. Even if you run 8 way splits (and no one runs splits until week 2), you won't have enough tomes to buy your tome gear and you won't have enough upgrade mats to upgrade the tome gear.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

Yoshi-P has spoken about the 450 tome cap a few times. It's capped at 450 tomes because they don't want people to feel like they have a big mandatory weekly grind, which I think is fair.

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There are simple ways of effectively increase the cap without increasing the effort to cap out every week, you can:

-Slash the price of capped tome gear, taking almost 2 weeks worth of capped tomes for 1 piece is excessive.
-Increase the capped tome rewards on content, if they boost the cap to 900, but also increase the reward from a level 100 dungeon to 100 per run, nothing was changed in terms of effort.

Ultimately the point of the request is to improve the playerbase's buying power over a time period, and how the buying power is increased is irrelevant, it only increases the grind if you adjust the cap and nothing else around the cap.

And as a side note, maybe it would be fair for people who care about gearing to have a heavier grind, 900 wouldn't even be that much, just more than "Yeah do this one roulette every day for 5 days", I often find myself capping first day of the week..

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

There are simple ways of effectively increase the cap without increasing the effort to cap out every week, you can:

-Slash the price of capped tome gear, taking almost 2 weeks worth of capped tomes for 1 piece is excessive.
-Increase the capped tome rewards on content, if they boost the cap to 900, but also increase the reward from a level 100 dungeon to 100 per run, nothing was changed in terms of effort.

Ultimately the point of the request is to improve the playerbase's buying power over a time period, and how the buying power is increased is irrelevant, it only increases the grind if you adjust the cap and nothing else around the cap.

And as a side note, maybe it would be fair for people who care about gearing to have a heavier grind, 900 wouldn't even be that much, just more than "Yeah do this one roulette every day for 5 days", I often find myself capping first day of the week..

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But the question is - why?

Let's say we go ahead and implement this. Now we're more overgeared week 1, so savage is even easier, we get BiS faster... Then we wait 4 months for ultimate and you don't do it anyway? People are complaining that they aren't getting gear fast enough but what are they using it for? You don't need BiS to play a job.

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Originally Posted by BigCheez

But the question is - why?

Let's say we go ahead and implement this. Now we're more overgeared week 1, so savage is even easier, we get BiS faster... Then we wait 4 months for ultimate and you don't do it anyway? People are complaining that they aren't getting gear fast enough but what are they using it for? You don't need BiS to play a job.

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as told earlier, that's a game design flaw. the first problem is : why is there only 2 way to get a "good" gear and why is there only 1 content to use it on.

and i don't see why it matter to you that ppl get gear and don't want to do ultimates (which have lackluster rewards too anyway). here the argument is : ppl should be able to play as much as they want, no matter the content they do.

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Originally Posted by VeyaAkemi

There are simple ways of effectively increase the cap without increasing the effort to cap out every week, you can:

-Slash the price of capped tome gear, taking almost 2 weeks worth of capped tomes for 1 piece is excessive.
-Increase the capped tome rewards on content, if they boost the cap to 900, but also increase the reward from a level 100 dungeon to 100 per run, nothing was changed in terms of effort.

Ultimately the point of the request is to improve the playerbase's buying power over a time period, and how the buying power is increased is irrelevant, it only increases the grind if you adjust the cap and nothing else around the cap.

And as a side note, maybe it would be fair for people who care about gearing to have a heavier grind, 900 wouldn't even be that much, just more than "Yeah do this one roulette every day for 5 days", I often find myself capping first day of the week..

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if they want to rework the gearing system they need to make it more "rewarding" in terms of feeling

I cleared M4s day 2 and had my weapon week 3, it didn't feel rewarding at all lol

they should put more random loot + being able to maximize this randomness with grinding :


like for example random gear pieces + being able to run the savage a 2nd/3rd time each week with a side content grind + random stat and you can grind (savage or other content) to adjust stats on each pieces
+ tomestone being increasingly more difficult to obtain (for instance in the 1st week : 450 at 90/30mn rate, then up to 900 at a 40/30mn rate, then up to 1350 at a 20/30mn rate, etc) + a last set (aside from savage & tomestone) that is random (can loot randomly everywhere and you can open the chest if you have an assigned token for people doing savage)

and all of the grind content needs to be fun (but netcode/gameplay limitations wont make it possible oc)

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

as told earlier, that's a game design flaw. the first problem is : why is there only 2 way to get a "good" gear and why is there only 1 content to use it on.

and i don't see why it matter to you that ppl get gear and don't want to do ultimates (which have lackluster rewards too anyway). here the argument is : ppl should be able to play as much as they want, no matter the content they do.

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Yes, it's a design flaw. The problem is that there's no real progression in FFXIV's endgame. The problem is not that you don't get gear fast enough.

There's nothing stopping you from playing as much as you want. The tome cap and savage lockout don't stop you from playing the game. Obsessing over gear that you aren't going to do anything with is stopping you from playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Fatch38

as told earlier, that's a game design flaw. the first problem is : why is there only 2 way to get a "good" gear and why is there only 1 content to use it on.

and i don't see why it matter to you that ppl get gear and don't want to do ultimates (which have lackluster rewards too anyway). here the argument is : ppl should be able to play as much as they want, no matter the content they do.

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As BigCheez said, putting the tomestone cap at 900 and unlocking savage loot earlier wont change anything

1) in a game with good gameplay, you dont need gear to enjoy a job

2) being able to have more gear (that feels not rewarding) wont change anything