I mean it is part of homonization after allQuote:
Originally Posted by Ramiee
3 expansion in a row I don't see how dev can't see this happened in the future
P4S cleared without healers
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08-13-2024, 08:09 AMTunda
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08-13-2024, 08:20 AMWytiSpeaking of WoW they recently had a similar problem but addressed it was faster and I've never resonated so strongly with a post from a dev than this one: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...within/1894517Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramiee
I really hope SE would be a bit more open about it with and once again take inspiration from the state of the art of MMOs design (not limited to wow) like they did during 2.0. -
08-14-2024, 02:50 AMZolvolt
This speaks more to the healing power of paladin than it does to anything else
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08-14-2024, 04:59 AMMortex8 clemency cast all around and only 1 during uptime with a dead. This is nothing if you think about it. Like they had too use this 1 uptime clemency because some one died. How is this ok ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Zolvolt
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08-14-2024, 05:13 AMCarighanHow to tell people that you didn't actually play that much WoW without explicitly saying so. I mean, it happened there again and again and again and again. And no tanks was popular for a long time, too. Warlock tanking, even! Although to be fair back in the first expansion there was one fight that was explicitly designed to have a Warlock Offtank. It wasn't really required, but the difference in difficulty between having one and not was startling. And from that came the fun of Warlock tanking raid bosses! I did quite a lot of them back then!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramiee
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08-14-2024, 07:46 AMRamieeI'm referring to current retail wow, they often rebalance tanks because they become too powerful. It's not perfect because it's something that happens constantly so it's like a constant reset after a period of healers being useless but at least the reset happens, in ff14 it has been this way for half half a decade without it being fixed. Hell before that healers would get dropped sometimes in dungeons, so really you could say this is a problem the game has never fixed. For as annoying as role balancing in wow is at least I know that there will always be a period where the trinity is rebalanced despite the fuckery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Carighan
Also in a wow mythic raid which is the equivalent to savage, this hasn't happened to my knowledge, wow overtunes their mythic raids then nerfs them but I don't believe there's ever been a mythic raid since at least Legion where healers were removed from play the same patch it released. -
08-14-2024, 08:49 AMVideraTwo extra tanks, who have better utility than a healer, better damage, higher HP and numerous other benefits? Those two extra tanks?Quote:
Originally Posted by PorxiesRCute
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08-14-2024, 10:03 AMApolloGenXSounds to me more like how avoidable damage is...kind of avoid or die....what's to heal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zolvolt
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08-14-2024, 02:52 PMCarighanYeah exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloGenX
FFXIV tends to only dish out big all-raid hits (sometimes disguised via spread or partner stack mechanics but same outcome) every so often in raids + some light tank-damage from AAs.
Compared to other MMORPGs that usually feature at least one of these four in every single fight:
- Random shots of light-medium damage fired at 1-2 raid members basically on every AA on the tank. Constant damage output that has to be handled via single target heals, forcing use of GCD heals as timer-based heals run out early if you tried to handle it with that.
- Non-preannounced lines, cleaves or AoEs that hit for light damage somewhere in the room. In particular melee DPS might hence at any point not be at full health, having just suffered a 360° melee cleave for 25%-40% of their health.
- Constantly ticking DoT on the entire raid, strong enough to require consistent healing but not life-threatening in any capacity. This again forced GCD heal usage because you run out of timers if you were to try do it just with those. Valigarmanda does not have this as the damage is far too benign, plus of course with how FFXIV snapshots its DoTs we all reduce it even further.
- Randomly thrown out secondary effects (DoTs, debuffs) that need handling via GCD abilities like single target heals or Esuna.
In return, those infrequent big raid hits don't hit for 90%-95% in other MMORPGs, but more like 50% or so. This is because at any given time, someone might get dropped by 40% right before. But in return, you are basically always busy healing. No breaks, no exceptions. People are constantly losing HP, you need your timers for the big hits, so you are spending time on GCD heals. -
08-14-2024, 05:54 PMRamiee
Ffxiv healers are designed for sustained damage in a game with determinant and patterned damage. Removing the damage dealing for Healers didnt also come with an overhaul in encounter design for them it just made healers worse to play in the same encounter design.