Either take away the healing powers from tanks or give healers tanking powers.

My only real complaint with clemency is when people use it excessively, especially when I'm actually casting a heal and they negate it in the process. But that's just frustration rather than an actual balance issue. The only change I would see made to the ability is the removal of the Requiescat flag, 4k MP and a GCD is cost enough in my book for 1k of healing potency on a tank.

Clememecy interferes with PLD's gameplay flow. Use it too much, you suddenly won't have at least 5k MP to execute entire spellblade combo during burst window. It also eats up a GCD. 1000 tank potency is about the same as today's WHM Cure II/Solace which suffice to say, isn't that much given its other costs attached to it. Definitely not as egregious as WAR's SiO regen (why, just why), BW (lmao), Equilibrium regen (zzzz) and Damnation (damn).

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Clememecy interferes with PLD's gameplay flow. Use it too much, you suddenly won't have at least 5k MP to execute entire spellblade combo during burst window. It also eats up a GCD. 1000 tank potency is about the same as today's WHM Cure II/Solace which suffice to say, isn't that much given its other costs attached to it. Definitely not as egregious as WAR's SiO regen (why, just why), BW (lmao), Equilibrium regen (zzzz) and Damnation (damn).

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Which makes it even more egregious that they added such potent heals to the spell blade

Now there is almost no justification to actually use enough clemency that it actually interferes with your ability to perform the spellblade combo as the spellblade combo provides near 3 clemencies worth of healing and it’s also like 70% of PLD’s total DPS

Yea I don’t understand why spellblade needs their self heals. A monkey paw wish of mine who only dabble into the job is to balance them into having choices like these:

• Spellblade deals purely damage & is strongest in damage potential.
• Holy Spirit/Circle remains viable as a double duty tool to dps & heal themselves but weaker in dps potential vs spellblades.
• Clememecy had their cure potency increased under Req window just like in ShB with small 3y targeted AoE.

Of course the correct choice for the most part would always be Spellblade with how valued dps are. But I think it’s a fair trade to give up its sustenance instead of given away for free. Holy Shelltron is already a Clememecy worth of cure potency per use. Coupled some HS/HC tacked into their fillers, I don’t think they need anymore than that.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

A tank when you factor in their gear, their hp and their ability to functionally always have a mitigation up have around 6-700% eHP of a healer

If healer mitigations were comparable to the point that a healer could play an “off tank” like the tank could play an off healer the healers single target mitigations would have to be in the realm of (and I’m not joking here) 85%-90% mitigation

There is absolutely no role equitability between tanks and healers in the modern game

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I don't know if the math on that seems right... I Suppose it could be checked by some wacky tank LB3 and giving a healer a tank buster.

But yes tank Mitigation cooldowns are very very strong, too strong infact, sustain like auora? holy sheltron regen? not really, sustain isn't really a issue until you look into jobs like warrior, or PLD's healing from magic attacks (which I've always said i don't really like that PLD has a majority of its sustain tied to rotation).

If anything I Think tanks should get less personal Mitigation, but more ways to support/aid the party and healers, I'd much prefer it if tanks played a sort of support-DPS hybrid. This would actually make tank feel more important and fun as a "party protector".

Getting back to healers, I will mention i think they should get stronger cooldowns that would have more "impact" on the tanks success, taking away some mitigation power from tanks but giving it to healer's seems like a fair trade off for tanks having decent sustain, I think tank healing gets exaggerated a lot because of clears using certain party comps to fill in for the gaps of no healers, but theirs some merit to healers feeling "useless" if major fights can be cleared without them consistently.

I did hear m3s had some pretty important healing requirements, I dunno if theirs a comp that has cleared without healers on that fight yet, maybe the future design direction should have more intense actual healing for healers, so abilities like divine veil, earth's reply become more "support" to the healer rather then replacing them.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I did hear m3s had some pretty important healing requirements, I dunno if theirs a comp that has cleared without healers on that fight yet, maybe the future design direction should have more intense actual healing for healers, so abilities like divine veil, earth's reply become more "support" to the healer rather then replacing them.

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The only reason M3S is unlikely to be cleared with no healers until much later is because that fight has one mechanic that's precisely designed to require a healer.

Fusefield is 8 separate hits of rather high damage over a period of about 20 or so seconds, also the party is spread out at the time, so Curing Waltz wouldn't be useful. The fact that the damage is spread out also means it's harder to cover all of it with mitigation.

Now imagine if more fights were designed with frequent, moderate damage in mind, then tanks would more supplement healers rather than replace them outright.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Which makes it even more egregious that they added such potent heals to the spell blade

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If it's such a potent heal, how come we healers never use our Cure/Benefic/Diagnosis/Physick? Because make no mistake, that's roughly what it is. Just on a tank instead of a healer. A heal that is too weak and takes too much damage away for us to bother using.

Just tested, my AST Benefic 1 non-crits ~24-25, my Benefic 2 is more 39-40. My PLD weirdly has a higher variance, but gets 30-34 non-crit on Clemency. So smack-dab in the middle just about.

So heals. Many strong. Much HP. Wow.

The thing is, this is entirely down to a lack of incoming damage in raids and dungeon boss fights (trash groups are kinda okay, which is why Warrior who scales off of the amount of enemies in their healing is the only problematic one here). If the game dealt just a bit more damage to the group, you could in no way cover it with that flimsy "I can cast a Benefic 1.5 six times then I'm OOM"-healing.

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Originally Posted by Aravell

Now imagine if more fights were designed with frequent, moderate damage in mind, then tanks would more supplement healers rather than replace them outright.

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This is exactly what I want, but everytime people clear without healers it seems to be "OMG tank has one AOE heal it so OP Nerf tanks!" Funny thing is I want them to nerf some selfish aspects about tanks (sustain on war is too high and mitigation should be leveled down a bit on all tanks).

I want healers to be useful, but I don't know why it has to always be 100% blamed on tanks having "too much healing" Sure removing all healing from all non-healer jobs would make it so they required you to use a healer... But it wouldn't actually fix anything about "healer gameplay".

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Originally Posted by Carighan

If it's such a potent heal, how come we healers never use our Cure/Benefic/Diagnosis/Physick? Because make no mistake, that's roughly what it is. Just on a tank instead of a healer. A heal that is too weak and takes too much damage away for us to bother using.

Just tested, my AST Benefic 1 non-crits ~24-25, my Benefic 2 is more 39-40. My PLD weirdly has a higher variance, but gets 30-34 non-crit on Clemency. So smack-dab in the middle just about.

So heals. Many strong. Much HP. Wow.

The thing is, this is entirely down to a lack of incoming damage in raids and dungeon boss fights (trash groups are kinda okay, which is why Warrior who scales off of the amount of enemies in their healing is the only problematic one here). If the game dealt just a bit more damage to the group, you could in no way cover it with that flimsy "I can cast a Benefic 1.5 six times then I'm OOM"-healing.

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Because the spell blade combo does it 4 times in a row and it’s a damage gain to use it

Press cure 1 4 times on a tank then assume it was actually a damage gain to do so and realise you do that every minute and it adds up

You can’t compare a damage loss GCD heal that has superior options to a rotational heal

I don’t know why you associated “spellblade” with clemency

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I don’t know why you associated “spellblade” with clemency

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Oh sorry, you meant the Confiteor combo instead of using Requiescat stacks on Clemency? My bad then. Wasn't clear from the wording you used.