You pull you tank question.

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Originally Posted by loosie

If it's explicitly the tank's job to pull but isn't pulling, isn't that being disruptive?

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But we're not talking the tank isn't pulling, what is being said is the tank isn't pulling at the speed you would like. That's like reporting DPS because they aren't killing things fast enough or in the order you like. While I agree it's generally better to wall to wall pull, that decision lies with the person who has to deal with all the mobs not the person who doesn't have to care and just wants to see a certain colour next to their name on a certain website that should not be named. So yeah unless you speak to the tank before hand it's toxic to just pull more mobs over and expect the tank to take them off you. You pull it, well then you're now responsible for the damage those mobs do to you this fight, enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

But we're not talking the tank isn't pulling, what is being said is the tank isn't pulling at the speed you would like. That's like reporting DPS because they aren't killing things fast enough or in the order you like. While I agree it's generally better to wall to wall pull, that decision lies with the person who has to deal with all the mobs not the person who doesn't have to care and just wants to see a certain colour next to their name on a certain website that should not be named. So yeah unless you speak to the tank before hand it's toxic to just pull more mobs over and expect the tank to take them off you. You pull it, well then you're now responsible for the damage those mobs do to you this fight, enjoy.

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Nobody's parsing story dungeons my dude.
The thing is, if you're not tanking, you're not playing the game. It's that simple. When you go into a dungeon, you're expected to cooperate and play the game and there's nothing saying that pulling and killing mobs isn't being cooperative, as it's working towards the end goal.
It's only your decision to wall-to-wall or not as is dependent on your own ability. If you can't handle it, that's perfectly fine and while the group will suffer from a lack of skill, the blame won't be on bad behavior. If you intentionally stop playing to ruin the experience of other players in the group, that's very poor form and rightfully bannable. If you try your best and the mobs are dead, the only negative impact a non-tank pulling I can imagine has is to your ego.

If we're going to talk gameplay, in reality all you actually have to do to be an effective tank is stand still and mash your AoE combo until everything is dead while the rest of the party gathers mobs. You're not unable to do that, and the only reason you choose to stop tanking is because you feel slighted, which there is absolutely no reason to.

People that genuinely get upset about a healer or dps pulling more mobs and saying "you pull you tank" really comes off as the kind of People that say "you don't pay my sub!" And will insist on playing a specific way, even if it is a detriment to the group.

As long as you have stance on, spam aoe or attacks and maybe use your provoke on stragglers, you will take the aggro and continue the duty as normal. And if you do wipe then the extra amount that was pulled was obviously more than the healer could handle.

People that pull or get a head aren't really an issue if that's what they want to do. The main issue I've been seeing are those that get aggro and run away from me.
I'm at the point where I tell them once to not run away and after that it's on them.

I only get pissed when the party is talking about mechs and pointers about a fight and some DPS decides that he can't wait for us to finish talking about problem solving the thing that killed us- resulting in even more deaths.

Outside of that situation, I don't think it's a big deal- not enough to start fights over. Just talk it out and if they don't listen, just do what you usually do. If you pull aggro off of them, great! If not, meh. Though I imagine that's a pain in the ass to healers.

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Originally Posted by Eluvyel

You're violating two different rules of the ToS doing that. Lethargic Play and MPK. One day it'll be a report too many.

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Y'all squinting so hard to make this the tank's fault.

Lethargic play isn't actively tanking the group the tank pulled. There's no explicit contract that I'm going to tank additional, sometimes optional, packs someone else thought they would pull. You have no idea what I can handle, maybe I know in 5 seconds I need to look away from the screen because I'm not an NPC and my kitten just jumped on the curtain again. I'll finish this pack, then say a quick AFK. Oh wait, I can't, because the DPS is being 'helpful'. Lethargic play, ffs are you kidding me?

And MPK isn't a DPS grabbing mobs they have no ability to handle on their own and then dying because no one came to save them. An MPK is pulling a mob to an unsuspecting player and then in some way dropping aggro so that player gets killed by the monster instead. Holy crow folks, you wonder why no one wants to play with you.

What y'all are suggesting is the potential MPK.

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Originally Posted by Gunz_Zbestest

It might have been a relevant statement to make like 3 expansions ago when aggro was...let's not say broken, but required higher dps or a blm could easily rip one or two away.
These days, if a dps runs around a corner and grabs mobs for me because I didn't see the door? Bring them over here friend, throw that wood on the pile.

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It occasionally still happens with BRD. But that's just something that can happen and is no one's fault.

Bad tanks are going to be bad regardless. Just hit provoke and/or the aoe combo and you get the aggro, otherwise it's just lazyness and a meaningless idea of "Power" that comes with tanking. Most of the dungeons can be done without a healer, and many can even be done with full dps and a competent healer, so just provoke/AoE and move on with the dungeon

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Originally Posted by TBerry

It occasionally still happens with BRD. But that's just something that can happen and is no one's fault.

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Exactly, mistakes happen. Not only that but as a tank, If you quietly crossed your arms and said 'let them eat that mob', you're also putting the burden onto the healer who has no idea what your game plan is.

YPYT would constitute as lethargic gameplay.

Though it's an MMO, so really people should be using their social skills to communicate with the other player(s) in your party.

If I were to pull small (Which I don't), then I wouldn't care if someone pulled extra, either communicate it with me or at the very least bring the mobs to me, so I can pull aggro. I certainly am not playing a game of tag or ring-around-the-rosie with a DPS that pulls and then kites them to kingdom come.