Please focus on giving console players more hotbar space, instead of removing actions

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

Shoha 2 survived, despite being redundant, to the point you could just literally slap it together with shoha with "600 to target and 33% for all remaining enemies" and it literally frees up that slot. There is no reason for Shoha 1 and 2 to both exist, they're simply a gauge dump every 3 Iaijutsu.

Kaiten went away because it required even the littlest of thinking about your job gauge's resource management for your burst window. If it was about bloat Shoha fits the bill. If it was about redundancy Shoha still fits the bill.

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As I said in my post, there are still more skills that can be pruned or consolidated. The presence of these abilities does not warrant the return of the skills that were deleted.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I feel like we need to have a discussion about why people think more skills equals more better.


We don't need 36+ skills that are used.


That's too much. Make it 20 and make them actually matter.

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No. Make it 36+ that actually matter. More skills that are more interesting is better.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

Yeah, got to love the button fetishists.

What actually matters for good combat is flow and sound design. Not the amount of button one has.

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Sound design has literally nothing to do with how many decisions go into playing your job.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I feel like we need to have a discussion about why people think more skills equals more better.


We don't need 36+ skills that are used.


That's too much. Make it 20 and make them actually matter.

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I'm advocating for not removing more skills every expansion. Why do you want more skills to be removed? What benefit is there to taking away things people like?

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Originally Posted by velswen

No. Make it 36+ that actually matter. More skills that are more interesting is better.

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Because you dilute the impact of each skill the more there are.

Also, you reduce the ability for broader audiences to play.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because you dilute the impact of each skill the more there are.

Also, you reduce the ability for broader audiences to play.

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says who plenty of chars ive made on skyrim have like 37, and dnd characters if a caster have a ton of spells without it diluting lol

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Originally Posted by Teno

Pvp has 10 skills and its gameplay is infinitely more complex than the pve bloat we have. Why tf is there stil a 123 combo for so many jobs ?

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you know what makes it more complex? Its simply PEOPLE thats it the computers the combat the battle fights are so brain dead and simplified pattern that it cant be complex lol pvp cant be compared to pve due the fact players can't be predicted

Pvp has 10 skills and its gameplay is infinitely more complex than the pve bloat we have. Why tf is there stil a 123 combo for so many jobs ?

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Originally Posted by Graveyardprincess

says who plenty of chars ive made on skyrim have like 37, and dnd characters if a caster have a ton of spells without it diluting lol

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You do not have 37 skills you are using at once in Skyrim. It is also a completely different game with a different combat design.

It doesn't sound like you actually do high end content in xiv, maybe try some of that first before commenting on combat design

Getting rid of all the unnecessary departmentalization of single target and AOE would do a lot more for preserving hotbar space. What I mean by this is where many jobs have two of the same button, but one is for bosses while the other is for trash mobs. FFXIV doesn't feature any combat elements that interact with the concept of target-ability outside of a very tiny set of examples, such as the Magus Sisters. It's not worth it to have entirely divorced AOE rotations or actions because you never use them outside of very shallow combat encounters.

Samurai is a job that has "too many buttons" apparently, right? Going off of Samurai's current action list, you could very easily clear up a lot of hotbar space doing the following:

Fugo > replaced with Yukikaze: Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to all enemies in a cone before you. Combo From Hakaze: Potency increases to 300 for the first enemy and 75% less for all other enemies; Increases the Kenki by 15; Grants Setsu.

Kasha > replaced with Oka: Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to all enemies in a cone before you. Combo from Yukikaze: Potency increases to 120; Grants Fuka for 40 seconds; Increases Kenki by 10; Grants Ka. Combo from Shifu: Potency increases 330 (380 from Flank) for the first enemy and 75% less for all other enemies; Increases Kenki by 10; Grants Ka.

Gekko > replaced with Mangetsu: Delivers an attack with a potency of 100 to all enemies in a cone before you. Combo from Yukikaze: Potency increases to 120; Grants Fugetsu for 40 seconds; Increases Kenki by 10; Grants Getsu. Combo from Jinpu: Potency increases 330 (380 from Rear) for the first enemy and 75% less for all other enemies; Increases Kenki by 10; Grants Getsu.

^ Yukikaze is the same as it is in single target, but is now also your AOE combo starter. Oka and Mangetsu replace their single target variants and just have slightly different effects based on whether you combo them form Yukikaze or from Shifu/Jinpu respectively.

Hissatsu: Shinten > upgrades into Hissatsu: Kyuten: Delivers an attack to all nearby enemies with a potency of 250 for the first enemy and 50% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 25 Kenki.

Hissatsu: Senei > replaced with Hissatsu: Guren: Delivers an attack to all enemies in a straight line before you with a potency of 860 for the first enemy and 75% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 25 Kenki.

Shoha II > Replaced with Shoha: Delivers an attack to all nearby enemies with a potency of 560 for the first enemy and 75% less for all remaining enemies. Costs 3 stacks of Meditation.

^ That is 6 less hotbar slots, and both single target Samurai and AOE Samurai is roughly the same. I chose cones since that requires a target for single target, meaning you can't whiff them in single target, but they can also be circles if we're that allergic to cones on Samurai for some reason. Potencies in AOE are a little different, and can also be easily adjusted. They're more focused on the first target you're hitting rather than equally distributing damage across all enemies, but I don't feel that's an issue.

Either you slim down total action counts, which do make things more comfortable for everyone, not just controller players, or you can use that newly freed up space to add something else to jobs. Maybe use that extra space for more ways to spend Kenki on Samurai, for example.

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Originally Posted by velswen

I'm advocating for not removing more skills every expansion. Why do you want more skills to be removed? What benefit is there to taking away things people like?

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I have no particular attachment to any skill outside of animation. To me that would be like having an affinity for F# on a piano by itself. I only care about how they play together and how they flow into each other and how they feel when played as a unit.

In RPGs that allow training, I use it because something that might have made sense when your character was level 3, might not make sense anymore at level 12. It's okay for abilities to evolve and for them to be pruned from time to time. Design requires the ability to remove as much as the ability to add or change.