The 7.0 Graphical update preview is an objective failure

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Originally Posted by Embran

For the large part, I see pretty much mostly positive opinions about the graphical updates. Reddit, Twitter, etc., basically anywhere except for the official forums — but then again, I can’t remember the last time the official forums was largely positive about anything. This is mostly where people go to air their grievances or ask for feedback.

I think the graphical changes are good. My character looks much nicer, and I feel like the lighting, the gear and the environments are a massive step forwards.

I do agree that there is still work they need to do addressing the changes that were made to some characters, such as eyebrows and lips being totally different, but I certainly disagree that it’s an objective failure. I think the eyes and skin need a touchup, but still a net improvement overall.

Anyway, I find this post odd, because you begin each part of your "objective" statement with "I believe" -- which just tells me you subconciously recognize this is a subjective statement.

I really wish the forum wouldn't use so much hyperbole when levying criticisms. All it does is make people defensive or offensive on both sides to make sure their hyperbole is the one that comes out on top. This is why each thread turns in to an argument by its second page lol.

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I really do not know about reddit that much, but on twitter that is simply not true based on my own feed. That said, too, reddit and twitter are usually places for discussion amongst players. You'll find controversial debates about things like gameplay and similar there because that is something that is often discussed amongst peers. But we're talking about people and their opinions on the graphic update and how that has affected their character. No one cares what you (general you) think about how their character looks, but they do care about the results and Yoshida did promise that peoples characters wouldn't be greatly affected by the update which people have found for themselves is untrue. People know Yoshida, and the dev team, use the forums for feedback. It's not surprising that most of the negativity you're going to be seeing is on the forums which is one of the closest ways they can direct their feedback to the developers.

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Originally Posted by Embran

I am referencing Yoshida's JP fanfest quote where the free fantasia was announced, which is more recent by over two years.

This is the problem with throwing the word "objective" around like this.

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My use of 'objective' earlier was objectively correct (ha), as I was using facts to make my point

Anyway, so the free Fantasia was after the two quotes from OP happened? Likely meaning that they somehow couldn't prevent parts of the models from looking different after working on the update for those two years, so they were trying to appease people ahead of time- that's very interesting

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Originally Posted by hymmeli

I really do not know about reddit that much, but on twitter that is simply not true based on my own feed. That said, too, reddit and twitter are usually places for discussion amongst players. You'll find controversial debates about things like gameplay and similar there because that is something that is often discussed amongst peers. But we're talking about people and their opinions on the graphic update and how that has affected their character. No one cares what you (general you) think about how their character looks, but they do care about the results and Yoshida did promise that peoples characters wouldn't be greatly affected by the update which people have found for themselves is untrue. People know Yoshida, and the dev team, use the forums for feedback. It's not surprising that most of the negativity you're going to be seeing is on the forums which is one of the closest ways they can direct their feedback to the developers.

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Yeah -- which is why I said in my very own post that the reason you're seeing mostly negativity here is because that is what it is for, and why I went out of my way to say that people SHOULD be voicing their grievances and concerns, even if I personally don't have any because my character came out looking great. I will NEVER fault anyone for being upset about ANY aspect of the game. I just wish it didn't have to devolve in to petty arguments all the time, regardless of which side of the fence you stand on.

As well intentioned (or not) as this post may be, even as a player with many concerns about how it turned out your "wall of text" suggests you may be more interested in taking a bunch of feedback you don't even share concerns with and reposting it with FAILURE in the headline to drag in attention.Hm.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

This isn't feedback. This isn't constructive criticism. This just sounds like entitled whining. Granted, I have not read any of your other posts in regards to the matter. I am talking about this one specifically and other rants of the same cloth.

Fact of the matter is you have no choice but to wait until launch, and even then it's not like this is going to be hot fixed in an emergency update. We won't see any updates to this until 7.1 at best, or around seven months, and that's low balling it. The dev team is very likely going to be addressing the fundamental technical setbacks and gameplay issues based on high duty feedback from trusted savage raiders as their first and foremost priority. This is even more true if they make substantial changes. Buckle up.

This graphical update is cosmetic. I understand and relate to emotional attachment to one's own character, as does the dev team. But at the end of the day, that's what it is. It's fine to leave feedback, it's fine to express criticism, but be an adult about it.

Many players have strong and legitimate concerns about these updates and are able to express themselves as adults without sounding like they are owed something.

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What ? The technical part is a valid critique and needs fixing. What should i tell them further? The first page here is FULL of examples.
For the change in shape and colors, it is obvious more options most importantly the old ones. The problem is not that we got new stuff. The problem is the character creator is extremly limited and those little options are changed drasticly. So more options would elevate or even solve the problem as a whole.

This is a discussion. And many people discuss things and some opinions you will not like or agree. I disagree with your points almost entirely but i do not disregard them or tell you they invalid. I simply do not share them.

Also as far as i see this, this is a personal attack. You dont know what i am attached to or not and so forth. But no worries, no harm done. Its ok. I know you love the game and emotions are a thing.
Have a good day ^^

It is my concern that cbu3 may have treated certain things as unimportant to maintain, even if doesn't directly affect me. Even with lack of a bigger picture, i wanted to express my thoughts, and i stand by what i said to the degree that i can, while accepting the flaws in my statements.

I was not expecting like minded people to flock to this thread. I made this thread with the expectation of opposition. It would have surprised me if many people actually agreed with me.

I'm going to say it now. I don't care if the thread title is hyperbolic. I feel that it is true to my thoughts on the matter. If it draws people in because it's click baity, I'm fine with that. I am unashamed of the thread title.

I didn't think much about the fantasia offering. When Au Ra were introduced, a fantasia was offered then. I was confused and disappointed when fantasia were not offered at the implementation of Hrothgar and Viera. I just assumed they changed their mind then and now.

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Originally Posted by LordMcMutton

My use of 'objective' earlier was objectively correct (ha), as I was using facts to make my point

Anyway, so the free Fantasia was after the two quotes from OP happened? Likely meaning that they somehow couldn't prevent parts of the models from looking different after working on the update for those two years, so they were trying to appease people ahead of time- that's very interesting

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It's all good. We all want the same thing: to enjoy our characters and have a good time.

I just don't like the hyperbole that often comes attached with these threads. It shuts down actual discussion.

Anyway, yeah. The faces got 60 new bones, which are mostly found in the eyes and mouths. I have no doubt it's to make them more expressive in the cutscenes, and it's also likely why they got hit the hardest. They had to redo them instead of just "painting over them," so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Embran

Anyway, yeah. The faces got 60 new bones, which are mostly found in the eyes and mouths. I have no doubt it's to make them more expressive in the cutscenes, and it's also likely why they got hit the hardest. They had to redo them instead of just "painting over them," so to speak.

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That's a good point- one that I forgot about.

It's possible that could be responsible for a lot of the "physical" form changes, as it were, since facial rigging is very, very complicated (so much so that I use tricks to bypass it entirely in my own works)

I think it's extremely interesting that two of the people who are downplaying changes are Face 1 Fem Highlanders--you know, one of the faces they used to showcase for the past several months, and had some of the least changes aside from how makeup contours around their eyes, lol.

"Negativity" is being posted on Twitter, Reddit, and the JP side of forums. You can easily figure it out even with subpar machine translations if you don't believe me. The expansion is not going to get delayed or face any real repercussions for this; people absolutely should continue to voice their criticisms regardless of how defensive one might feel for the multi-million dollar company's sake for some reason.

And regardless of semantics, they made a promise that character impressions would change as little as possible. These quotes are literally linked. It doesn't matter how it's said when the sentiment is the same regardless.

Several models were literally higher fidelity in 1.0 and kept their identities unscathed in the transitional "graphical downgrade" to 2.0. These things can be fixed and should be--especially when several new textures and meshes straight up appear to have placeholder quality or look like they were thrown into an AI upscale generator.

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Originally Posted by Doopliss

I think it's extremely interesting that two of the people who are downplaying changes are Face 1 Fem Highlanders--you know, one of the faces they used to showcase for the past several months, and had some of the least changes aside from how makeup contours around their eyes, lol.

"Negativity" is being posted on Twitter, Reddit, and the JP side of forums. You can easily figure it out even with subpar machine translations if you don't believe me. The expansion is not going to get delayed or face any real repercussions for this; people absolutely should continue to voice their criticisms regardless of how defensive one might feel for the multi-million dollar company's sake for some reason.

And regardless of semantics, they made a promise that character impressions would change as little as possible. These quotes are literally linked. It doesn't matter how it's said when the sentiment is the same regardless.

Several models were literally higher fidelity in 1.0 and kept their identities unscathed in the transitional "graphical downgrade" to 2.0. These things can be fixed and should be--especially when several new textures and meshes straight up appear to have placeholder quality or look like they were thrown into an AI upscale generator.

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I have said over and over again in my comments that there are LEGITIMATE problems that need to be addressed and that just because I am happy with MY character does not mean everyone should be happy with theirs. I preface all of my comments with this because I KNOW people are going to just look to get angry with me for liking the changes to MY character.

I don't know where I've downplayed any of this at all. I've said repeatedly that some of the changes I've seen to eyebrows, mouths, and other things like the Hellsguard smudge NEED to be addressed.

I have gone out of my way so many times to include this in my comments because people have been eager to be upset with me for daring to like the changes to my character. Please stop.