Astrologian: what is your understanding about it?

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Originally Posted by Allegor

I wasn't pointing out to that idea specifically but the realization of the fact that cards are 100% worthless for non-dps players, whereas at least with the old system anyone could benefit from them, as niche as some could be. Now I'm not saying the old cards were without flaws either, but it just felt more...diverse/fair? if that makes sense.

I guess all it boils down to is that AST's very identity goes against the game's format /shrug

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It did feel diverse, for sure. I can't deny that.

But your last sentence encapsulate my long post, its identity goes against the current game (raiding) format...

Perhaps a semi RNG system where you get, 1 DPS card, one tanking card and one supportive card would just be the good middle ground.
Such as, you draw 3 cards, each symbole having two possibilities. And redraw makes you just move to the next card (like egi summon let say) so that you can choose which card to use with only 2 button, draw/play and redraw (or "swap")

Something like a 110s CD

Sun (DPS)
Balance : Increase Damage by 10% for 20s
Bole : Increase crit chance on your next 3 skill by 50%

Moon (defense)
Ewer : Increase party healing receive by 15% for 15s
Arrow : Reduce party damage taken by 10% for 15s

celestial (support)
Spear : Party members move faster for 10s
Spire : Targeted party member next 5 cast are instant.

Let say those are the buffs you get once every 110s. (Always starting on the DPS for comfort during opener)
You do get a DPS card no matter what, but its optimal target isn't the same every time.
You get a mitigation/healing buff, which means you can plan around both.
And you get a utility spell that can either be useless or just make a specific mechanic more comfortable. For instance, on TOP, there are quite a few places where either faster movement or instant cast would prove useful, like Pantocrator. It isn't mandatory, but there are often a few places where you're like "I definitely wouldn't mind extra comfort here".

I feel something like this would be a fair middle ground between what we currently have and what the old system was.

We all know what happened before when Bole got drawn... it was immediately turned to Royal Road and then continue to fish for Balance for the juicy 15% damage dealt.

In my opinion, the old AST card system was fine as it is. The only downside to it was there were no reliable TP refresh, even if you 1.5x RR Spire, it will not cut it. If these card mechanics are to be returned, Bole and Spire need to be updated. Spear is already great.. with that restored, we can remove Chain Stratagem from SCH. Arrow is no longer that problematic, seeing that BLM will gush over the insane spell speed buff it gets from it.

Honestly, for AST I would condense it by focusing on the card system itself and dropping a lot of the bloat. People say that the burst is too busy and high APM, but if you cut out everything that isn't cards, you can dump out a lot. If you tie lightspeed to divination, remove MA and dyne, you have just dropped 3-4 weaves in the window. Given that the absolute max amount of weaves regular cards will give you in the window are 7, that's a third of the weaves gone. 2xdraw, 3xplay, with 2~ishxredraws. (Assuming you draw at 60s and redraw during filler). I think I actually really like how AST cards are currently tied to buffs, but I would like to see it get spread out more. All the solutions I see to draw (make it a gcd, make cards not dps buffs, hell even removing draw and just having it auto pick you a new card) are really bad ideas. I think the best way to take care of the burst window being too much, while also keeping the reactive and busy gameplay of AST is to simply force you to be constantly using your cards, rather than stockpiling them. It turns 15s of extreme apm with 105s of low apm into 120s of somewhat high apm, with maybe a minor increase around 2mins bc why not? I always loved AST bc it felt like I was always doing something instead of just pressing my singular dps button in filler. Constantly having to think about and react to my cards is something that no other job provides.

I expect the job to be ruined in DT, but I can be hopeful that they at least somewhat understand what actual AST mains want, and don't bow down to the people who are scared to admit they'd probably just have more fun playing white mage. A return to ShB AST (the best iteration if you ask me, you cannot convince me stormblood cards are fun) would be a good start, but we'd need something more bc ShB AST just does not work well with the current design philosophy of Endwalker and presumably Dawntrail.

The problem btw with making cards unique and providing utility instead of damage is that it ends up where they're basically useless because you can't rely on them. And if you take the RNG out of it, then what's the point of having the cards? MA is already a 50/50 between a heal and dps, and that's bad enough for plans. How could you plan around 1/6? Would they just be bonuses on top of your current healplan? That's not useful. Heal and mit plans are always designed to function as if the worst case, minimum output scenario occurs. I design my AST plans as if I will draw lord of crowns 100% of the time, because in the case that I do, I do not want to wipe. So if you make cards RNG healing, mit, etc. then they're useless to me. I might as well not even draw, because I have to plan everything around the idea that I will never draw what I need. TThat's why I have an issue with utility cards. Damage, at least, is ALWAYS useful, and if it's always damage, you only need a small bit of reactivity to determine where it goes, and when. That's it!

I really like the concept of delayed heals and hope they keep it and lean on it. I'd like auto-draw of cards because it feels like one extra button to press that doesn't really do anything except create busywork for no reason where I'd rather press the same number of buttons to do more stuff. Astrodyne also feels weird thematically becuase I'd rather buff the party than improving my own DPS if I'm playing Astro. As for the buff the cards give you, that is way too complex for me to touch. I don't mind as they are right now but they are not very interesting ether (but all support in this game is insipid).

Minor Arcana just feels terrible no matter what. It can't feel worse than what it is right now so it might be the only thing to get better with the rework. I like the idea of a second sets of cards to use and that's about it.

Overall though I don't have much hope for the rework. I quite like Astro the way it is right now, it's the most interesting healer to play. I don't think it needed a rework that badly to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I'd like auto-draw of cards because it feels like one extra button to press that doesn't really do anything except create busywork for no reason where I'd rather press the same number of buttons to do more stuff.

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But consider! Pressing button to draw card feels satisfying. It'd be like, idk, gunbreaker without continuation. Dragoon without high jump. Scholar without aetherflow (so, Sage, which is part of why I don't like it). If they got rid of it, yeah, it does TECHNICALLY buff the class and reduce bloat, but I can't help but feel like it would really lose something. Some of that feedback.

The job died the momenf they removed unique card buffs and nocturnal/diurnal sects. It's a pity, because they destroyed one of the most interesting jobs in the game. Rolling back is something they'll never do, because it would be like accepting they ruined the job. Instead, they keep using their trump card to justify unacceptable dev laziness: "it's hard to balance". I swear I've seen the devs using that lame excuse literally every single time they're simply lazy to walk out of their area of comfort.

As per DT and since the job is due a rework once again, I'd turn it into either a dark healer similar a necromancer, or make it more of a flavored time mage, bringing back time dilation, nocturnal / diurnal sects, and card system from first iteration.

What are the chances that they removed the card system entirely? Or left like only 3 (like in PVP)?

Edit: forgot to add, but the card system is basically tarot system so removing it would kinda defeat the entire idea of "reading the cards/stars"

My toon is names Fu Soya. Figured AST went with the whole fusoya/lunarians moon theme

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Originally Posted by Kissune

But consider! Pressing button to draw card feels satisfying. It'd be like, idk, gunbreaker without continuation. Dragoon without high jump. Scholar without aetherflow (so, Sage, which is part of why I don't like it). If they got rid of it, yeah, it does TECHNICALLY buff the class and reduce bloat, but I can't help but feel like it would really lose something. Some of that feedback.

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But High Jump and Continuation do stuff. And yeah I feel the same way about Scholar. I don't find it satisfying at all, but cards are even worse because it's Play and Draw are two different buttons so you have meaningless button pressing and bloat (as if anyone would rather draw again than press a suboptimal card).

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Originally Posted by Moqi

But High Jump and Continuation do stuff. And yeah I feel the same way about Scholar. I don't find it satisfying at all, but cards are even worse because it's Play and Draw are two different buttons so you have meaningless button pressing and bloat (as if anyone would rather draw again than press a suboptimal card).

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I’m pretty sure they are saying SGE was the unsatisfying one not SCH