Pure/Barrier Split is a failure

SGE is the bigger problem of the two right now but it was built on SCH’s flawed premise when they redesigned SCH going from ARR->HW

Like indom is buried so deep in the SCH psyche that I don’t think a lot of people realise that realistically indom is not a skill SCH should have, at least recitation forces a choice (even if it’s a choice between 2 good options) but it still doesn’t really change the fact that the overpowered design of the modern shield healers started with SCH being too good, SGE just dialed it up to 15 for no reason

Should the raw healing of both SCH and SGE be lowered, then 4-man content will take a hit even more, in terms of damage taken by the rest of the party to compensate. Unless all tanks get substantial updates to their mitigation management, I don't see it happening... or something like Deployment Tactics/Pepsis get more potency buffs to make it more bursty.

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

SGE is the bigger problem of the two right now but it was built on SCH’s flawed premise when they redesigned SCH going from ARR->HW

Like indom is buried so deep in the SCH psyche that I don’t think a lot of people realise that realistically indom is not a skill SCH should have, at least recitation forces a choice (even if it’s a choice between 2 good options) but it still doesn’t really change the fact that the overpowered design of the modern shield healers started with SCH being too good, SGE just dialed it up to 15 for no reason

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I honestly don't think Indom is that big of an issue as long as it loses the 100% crit interaction from Recitation. It's behind a cooldown and it has a resource cost, it's pretty balanced for what it is, which is an OGCD Medica. Maybe it could stand to be lower potency than Medica or just delete Fey Blessing so SCH isn't double-dipping into pure healing. Indom was introduced in HW to address SCH's major weakness because they actually had no way to deal with AoE burst healing back in ARR aside from spamming Succor, which was a massive MP drain and meant that if the WHM went down before immediate AoE healing was required, you might as well just wipe because SCH had almost no way to recover from that kind of situation. I think that having a healer that has almost no emergency recovery potential when their co-healer goes down is honestly not a very good thing. Synergy with your co-healer is fine, having weaknesses is fine, but if SCH has no recovery potential, that would just breed animosity towards the WHM when they go down.

The main problem I see is that they took it too far and added a lot more over the years which made SCH too strong (honestly, they could stand to prune some of the later stuff, like the HoT they tacked onto Sacred Soil for some reason). Then they took what SCH has and made SGE even more broken for reasons only they know.

Regen on Sacred Soil never made sense to me. Why do they even need that? Back in ShB I couldn't fathom why wouldn't they apply... say 'panhaima styled' shields without HP conversion every 3s when they first think about adding that lv78 trait...? (meaning any excess shield will just go to waste rather than turned into HP recovery.)

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

Regen on Sacred Soil never made sense to me. Why do they even need that? Back in ShB I couldn't fathom why wouldn't they apply... say 'panhaima styled' shields without HP conversion every 3s when they first think about adding that lv78 trait...? (meaning any excess shield will just go to waste rather than turned into HP recovery.)

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I imagine so that using it is almost never strictly worse than just using Lustrate/Indom, to keep true to that "just press whatever" healing playstyle philosophy. In lower level dungeon content you actually might want to strategize a bit, mainly using it to do something useful with your remaining stack before getting aetherflow off cooldown.

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Originally Posted by ThorneDynasty

I imagine so that using it is almost never strictly worse than just using Lustrate/Indom, to keep true to that "just press whatever" healing playstyle philosophy. In lower level dungeon content you actually might want to strategize a bit, mainly using it to do something useful with your remaining stack before getting aetherflow off cooldown.

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Yeh, previously there was more depth to the choice, as you could choose either 'mitigate the hit by 10%', or 'heal after the hit'. So some hits it'd be more worth to Soil for, and some would find Indom to be more value for your Aetherflow. With the addition of the regen on Soil, though, we now have the situation where Soil is the better choice in 95% of situations, with only 'you need the burst healing right now' as the reason to use Indom, and even then you'd prefer to Recitation it so it doesn't cost an Aetherflow, which then means you're not even 'choosing' one or the other, you just use both

I'm personally fine with Indom existing, as mentioned it's a 30s CD and costs an Aetherflow (which means 100p because of ED). I do think it being Recitation-able makes it very strong, but I think that it's a cool interaction too, as it makes the amount that the Indom restores 'predictable' thanks to the guaranteed crit, rather than some players getting X and some getting X+50ish% because of random crits. IIRC they made Indom 300p in SB for a while, so maybe the solution to Indom's power is to just reduce it's base potency somewhat. Maybe 350? Then SGE's Indom equivalent has it's own unique flavour to it (that being, it's stronger baseline by 50p, but SCH being able to guarantee the crit makes it stronger in conjunction with Recitation)

I just think in a world where we have ET it should be indom that goes

Going back to aravell’s point that indom was introduced to counter the fact that SCH’s only AOE healing in ARR was whispering dawn then succor spam but think ET was the better fix to that problem, “you want pure healing? Sure, it’s gonna cost you GCD’s and MP though”, sure it’s only an oGCD medica and it has a CD but it’s not like the regen healers just get an “oGCD succor on a lily” or something like that

If indom has to stay then it should lose interaction with recitation and potentially receive a nerf, but I honestly believe that if you want pure healing on a shield healer you should be using ET/pepsis and suffer for it because that’s the regen’s field

Blessing can just go no one likes blessing

I also agree that soil needs to lose its regen because right now unless you are doing a dungeon and recitating critcog on the tank then soil is always the right answer there is no choice (and even if you critcog the tank you are still likely to put down soil anyway once the tank stops pulling)

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

I just think in a world where we have ET it should be indom that goes

Going back to aravell’s point that indom was introduced to counter the fact that SCH’s only AOE healing in ARR was whispering dawn then succor spam but think ET was the better fix to that problem, “you want pure healing? Sure, it’s gonna cost you GCD’s and MP though”, sure it’s only an oGCD medica and it has a CD but it’s not like the regen healers just get an “oGCD succor on a lily” or something like that

If indom has to stay then it should lose interaction with recitation and potentially receive a nerf, but I honestly believe that if you want pure healing on a shield healer you should be using ET/pepsis and suffer for it because that’s the regen’s field

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While ET is a decent answer to the problem of SCH's lack of burst healing, it still has some problems, namely MP cost. If your co-healer goes down and you need to immediately recover the situation, with Fey Blessing and Indom gone, you'd need to ET Succor and then spam Succor until the team is stable enough to survive, that might end with you not having enough MP to res your co-healer.

I think the best way forward would probably be to cut down the other stuff and nerf Indom by reducing it to 300 potency and make it unable to crit. That would give SCH the recovery potential in a required burst healing scenario without stepping all over the toes of the designated pure healers.

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Originally Posted by rawker

Should the raw healing of both SCH and SGE be lowered, then 4-man content will take a hit even more, in terms of damage taken by the rest of the party to compensate. Unless all tanks get substantial updates to their mitigation management, I don't see it happening... or something like Deployment Tactics/Pepsis get more potency buffs to make it more bursty.

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Aside from a few outliers that comes to mind, it would still be easier to tweak those than leaving healers as they are, what bulk of 4 man content requires this much healing power?

I could remove half the abilities off any 1 of my shield healers and still not bother to look at the screen on nearly all 4 man content, that's how braindead easy 4 man content is and how powerful shield healers have become.

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Originally Posted by Troxbark

Aside from a few outliers that comes to mind, it would still be easier to tweak those than leaving healers as they are, what bulk of 4 man content requires this much healing power?

I could remove half the abilities off any 1 of my shield healers and still not bother to look at the screen on nearly all 4 man content, that's how braindead easy 4 man content is and how powerful shield healers have become.

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Seriously I can basically get away with critdom and eos’s passive regen on most pulls these days

When TF am I use blessing in 4 man content, raidwides in the bosses are so infrequent anyway eos regens also handle that