Tank mitigation should be balanced to dungeons

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Originally Posted by VictorSpoils

A bare minimum change would be bumping Oblation down to ARR levels and maybe TBN to 60. That is, if they aren't changed entirely.

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...or give Dark Mind additionally 10% physical mitigation. No need to move Oblation all the way down, it absolutely deserves to be Lv82.

Ignoring the simplicity of implementing this rather than throwing around Level ranges, it hits two birds with one stone...

1.) Fills that extra gap or throughput in mitigation early on (pairs well with Reprisal)
2.) Would solve the issue a pure-magic Dark Mind would have in fights with physical autos, busters and mechanics compared to Camouflage, the physical counterpart to Dark Mind.

I don't really tank, but I do heal a lot. I can tell you that a DRK who knows what they're doing will seemingly be taking nearly no damage save for the starts of big pulls. You can slap two or three OGCDs on them and they're golden (compared to WAR who doesn't need you at all). They're fine. It's just that DRK is on the more complex side of things when it comes to actually playing it well, I guess.

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Originally Posted by PercibelTheren

I don't really tank, but I do heal a lot. I can tell you that a DRK who knows what they're doing will seemingly be taking nearly no damage save for the starts of big pulls. You can slap two or three OGCDs on them and they're golden (compared to WAR who doesn't need you at all). They're fine. It's just that DRK is on the more complex side of things when it comes to actually playing it well, I guess.

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Now do it in lv 60 content

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Originally Posted by Reinhardt_Azureheim

...or give Dark Mind additionally 10% physical mitigation. No need to move Oblation all the way down, it absolutely deserves to be Lv82.

Ignoring the simplicity of implementing this rather than throwing around Level ranges, it hits two birds with one stone...

1.) Fills that extra gap or throughput in mitigation early on (pairs well with Reprisal)
2.) Would solve the issue a pure-magic Dark Mind would have in fights with physical autos, busters and mechanics compared to Camouflage, the physical counterpart to Dark Mind.

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That works too, but 70 levels with no support abilities is rather harsh when the other tanks get at least one in that span. They already moved Stalwart Soul down to that range, which made just as much sense. Oblation provides the same 10% mitigation that this new Dark Mind would give, but the latter is available 40 levels sooner and can't target allies.

It's not like Oblation was crucial to getting through those four or so leveling dungeons that you have it in, compared to the flashier abilities the other tanks got. Camouflage also similarly suffers from lack of use in 8-man fights with magic auto-attacks or when off-tanking. The fact that it has a 10% mitigation already built in makes Dark Mind and Oblation look like one action that was split in half.

Really I just think early dungeons is bad for tanks, I feel like most tanks at 60 or below feel really awful to play (maybe outside warrior but i don't like warrior lol), PLD needs spells (a massive part of its identity that it doesn't get until stormblood) and some small sustain earlier, DRK/GNB need short mit and raid wides earlier. Also just give us gap closers all around 50-60 (if not eariler). Personally I don't want to play any tank at lower levels it feels so boring.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Really I just think early dungeons is bad for tanks, I feel like most tanks at 60 or below feel really awful to play (maybe outside warrior but i don't like warrior lol), PLD needs spells (a massive part of its identity that it doesn't get until stormblood) and some small sustain earlier, DRK/GNB need short mit and raid wides earlier. Also just give us gap closers all around 50-60 (if not eariler). Personally I don't want to play any tank at lower levels it feels so boring.

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I especially noticed when soloing Aquapolis that WAR has Thrill of Battle, Raw Intuition, and Equilibrium at 60 to go with everything else. It's in a league of its own.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

Really I just think early dungeons is bad for tanks, I feel like most tanks at 60 or below feel really awful to play (maybe outside warrior but i don't like warrior lol), PLD needs spells (a massive part of its identity that it doesn't get until stormblood) and some small sustain earlier, DRK/GNB need short mit and raid wides earlier. Also just give us gap closers all around 50-60 (if not eariler). Personally I don't want to play any tank at lower levels it feels so boring.

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DRK and GNB's raidwide are less than useless in dungeons though, unless they want to make them into full mitigation instead of just magic.

To be honest this isn't even a tank specific issue, Level sync in this game is ass, and when jobs are added or reworked it is never taken into consideration.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

DRK and GNB's raidwide are less than useless in dungeons though, unless they want to make them into full mitigation instead of just magic.

To be honest this isn't even a tank specific issue, Level sync in this game is ass, and when jobs are added or reworked it is never taken into consideration.

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Generally I think level synch effects tank the most, but yeah I do agree it effects all jobs (outside healer imo, I find healers more fun at lower levels because you can actually gcd heal), I just really dislike being synched down as a tank personally compared to anything else, they need to actually consider how jobs feel at early levels.

Oh I agree with tanks like DRK/GNB not just getting "magic only"

To be honest I actually wish raid wides were more fitting to the classes, such as Dark knight I rather have something similar to DV.
If I was to do raid wides (just from my POV), to fit more "thematically"
PLD: DV (The same, maybe replace its burst healing for aoe, not both), Passage either keep it as a "cone" or make it a 120 10-15% mit and make it like white mage, personally I dislike Passage but i know some people enjoy the cone AOE.
DRK: something like DV, but a bit stronger but only the barrier aspect of it.
War: a "beastly" shout that intimidates nearby enemies and makes the enemies do less damage for 10-15% (similar to reprisal lol, but it actually fits warrior instead of being a group healer...)
GNB: Same as current but also physical... can be bumped up to be more in line with other tanks.

Honestly theirs so much I want from tank changes in "DT" because their current state is honestly sort of miserable, I'm not really content with DRK's EW design nor with PLD's rework or Warriors state of being busted in normal content (even the best pick in hard content).

It comes down to pretty much every tank needing a re-evaluation, my only fear is if that happens tanks will become just even more similar lol.

Honestly Bloodwhetting is just crazy powerful as you literally dont have to pop any mitigation and can let yourself get really low. Pop BW and get to full health in a GCD or two. They gave PLD healing to help its self sustain to not be bad in dungeons. Lets be real here, before the PLD changes, PLD was really bad in dungeons and the only real sustain was casting clemency on yourself.

DRK at least had abyssal drain and TBN. GNB Aurora got buffed and it has HOC which is really good. DRK is the tank that was left out in terms of getting its self sustain updated.

Tanks getting updated in self sustain was another effort by SE to make healing easier, especially in dungeons. Do people think they will role that back and make healing harder in dungeons?

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

Every time this thread comes up it can basically be summed up as “DRK is getting flak for feeling weak compared to how comically overpowered WAR is in normal content so the obvious answer is to buff DRK and not for some reason nerf WAR”

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That's because people are less receptive to the idea of nerfing a job. More people are more likely to agree with you if you ask for buffs, and if you were to suggest nerfs to a job, people who play said job would be up in arms.