Shifting and Concerning Moods Regarding the Writing

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Originally Posted by Alec97

I love the part in the story where you time-travel back to Elpis for Venat to state you must return to your current timeline unless something terrible happens. When we know from Graha on the first, nothing happens, but you etch yourself onto the new timeline.

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Yeah. Also how hard Would it have been to instead of making the whole shebang a closed time loop just let us have the whole elpis part sans mind wipe so we know what is actually Happening then figure out how to return to our future instead of the unsundered Timeline we just created. Maybe even make the dungeon part of it bc there's random lost to time nasties in our way.

Then we could have, instead of hydaelyn actually having been waiting for us the whole time loop, have some researcher in sharlyan take our new knowledge, their hypothesis of the past/hydaelyn etc to come to the conclusion we should look for her in the atherial Sea. And run the rest of EW from there.

No making the WoL an Accessoire to genocides. And we get to keep emet et all around for fan Service and expac Potential.

Hey remember how we managed to convince Emet Selch through the power of friendship? Also Id say more that the whole 6.X theme was more on learning to trust people again more than friendship although thats also still a prominent factor.

Its funny how people have been ignoring most of our resolutions in the msq revolve around these feel good positive ideas. Endwalker didnt start doing it. The game was rigged from the start

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Originally Posted by Sani2341

Yeah. Also, how hard Would it have been to, instead of making the whole shebang a closed time loop, just let us have the entire Elpis part sans mind wipe so we know what is Happening and then figuring out how to return to our future instead of the unsundered Timeline we just created. Maybe even make the dungeon part of it bc there are randomly lost-to-time nasties in our way.

Then we could have, instead of hydaelyn actually having been waiting for us the whole time loop, have some researcher in sharlyan take our new knowledge, their hypothesis of the past/hydaelyn etc, to come to the conclusion we should look for her in the atherial Sea. And run the rest of EW from there.

No making the WoL an Accessoire to genocides. And we get to keep emet et all around for fan Service and expac Potential.

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They don't make you the accessories they make you the cause. If you don't travel to Elpis on Venats orders none of it happens. The time loop idea doesn't even work unless our timeline isn't the original either and then we get into the time travel weeds of why does it even matter if there are now an unkown amount of timelines and versions of us. This is why stories not based around time travel should never use it because it can contradict and supplant the rules of the world or it should be a very soft system like Dr Who where it's basically just described is as Timey Wimey or magic.

The fact is this could have all been rectified if we just saw it through the eyes of Emit or Elidibus as the entire premise of Elpis is recruiting Fandaniel. This doesn't excuse the inconsistent and repugnant moral foundation of the writers were they want you to agree with the genocide route by giving you the choices which actually makes it worse because they don't want your character to agree they want you to agree and click on it.

It's also the issue with character development as venat and Fan Daniel are incredibly ignorant of their society and evil people who push their morality on others to where it condemns the society to death, they framed it as being noble or sympathetic when we just received an entire speech from hythlodeaus about how the their species tamed the planet and struggled achieve what they had. Which was very well organised systems of government where they nurtured the star to promote life and these characters act like it took no struggle or effort to achieve that.. Venat sits there preaching nonsense about how they have never struggled as they are killing themselves en mass to save their friends, family and home.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Hey remember how we managed to convince Emet Selch through the power of friendship? Also Id say more that the whole 6.X theme was more on learning to trust people again more than friendship although thats also still a prominent factor.

Its funny how people have been ignoring most of our resolutions in the msq revolve around these feel good positive ideas. Endwalker didnt start doing it. The game was rigged from the start

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Tho we had different plot resolutions or resolutions to character arks in the past. Haurchefant dying, Alphinaud messing up in ARR, poisoned Sultana, Raubahns Arm or Iceheart sacrificing herself.

It started only with Stormblood that new characters became literally only blank faces we won't even remember. Like the resistance leader Lyse replaced. Or the guy that Fordola killed in the raid on the reach which we met in ARR actually but no player really cared.

They did it actually better in ShB where they gave us a whole expansion to learn to know Emet and thus we cared about him suffering and then us beating him. But who can say really that they care about Meteion or that depressed ancient emo guy cause we had literally just one zone and a tiny quest chain at that to actually get to know them. Same with the squished kid my monsters in Thavnair, just cheap shock moments all over the expansion. And no time given to actually explore different characters.

I honestly think the patch story was fine. I think it sets groundwork for further voidcontent in the future where we actually deep dive in there and help Zero, Unukalhai, Golbez and Cylva solving the 13th's problem akin to how the 1st is, once they have established a base of operations and gained more allies. Was it rushed writing-wise? Probably. Did it crawl at times? Probably due to the time we had to wait. Honestly if we had gotten another cliffhanger I would've died. It was very inoffensive as a patch story, was it boring for me? Nah. But I do have concerns for the future:

- Hildibrandish humor making it to the main storyline, sparkly googly eyes, PUDDINGWAY spitting on peoples deaths by doing his zombie routine, and other zany wacky effects which some of were seen in the patch story. Now this is fine, but in the middle of serious moments? No thanks.

- While the friendship talk was handled a bit more hammily this time, I didn't find it too bad nor a "power of friendship" thing. Best iteration of that was Nanamo speaking down Varis and preaching that the bonds with others is what makes nations and people strong, lifting up the weak so society may become strong as a whole. But I do worry that due to it being a japanese writing team some anime tropes will leak in there, minor ones are alright, but if it ever becomes a full Nakama / every shallow 1000 time repeated moral lesson every talk-no-jutsu shonen protagonist ever says. I will probably drop the game right there and then. But honestly I think they won't, the past expansions and politics were handled in a very adult manner.

- I worry they won't know how to dial down. Not every threat needs to be a world ender, and even then can we observe how the nations are doing amidst this? Can we get some advancement in terms of how Duskwights and Keepers are treated in Gridania, can we get some politics as a main story / patch story? Not just as a sidenote. (As much as Garlemald was shafted to make room for Zenos' useless rampage, I do like that we saw them establish a trade with Thavnair to stand on their own in lieu of their pride, maybe Garlemalds rebuilding will finally let us get deeper into their society to see what we were fighting against. Funny how Bozja & weapon storylines gave us a much more nuanced look at Garlemalds society and legions than any of the MSQ ever did.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Tho we had different plot resolutions or resolutions to character arks in the past. Haurchefant dying, Alphinaud messing up in ARR, poisoned Sultana, Raubahns Arm or Iceheart sacrificing herself.

It started only with Stormblood that new characters became literally only blank faces we won't even remember. Like the resistance leader Lyse replaced. Or the guy that Fordola killed in the raid on the reach which we met in ARR actually but no player really cared.

They did it actually better in ShB where they gave us a whole expansion to learn to know Emet and thus we cared about him suffering and then us beating him. But who can say really that they care about Meteion or that depressed ancient emo guy cause we had literally just one zone and a tiny quest chain at that to actually get to know them. Same with the squished kid my monsters in Thavnair, just cheap shock moments all over the expansion. And no time given to actually explore different characters.

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I think the only real compelling trait about Emet Selch, even before the Amaurot reveal was his decision to willingilly listen and travel with us briefly (kinda like Mithos Yggdrassil who did the same thing in Tales of Symphonia) Which was stuff that happener early in the msq. Other than that, he was the usual standard fare with other villians in other rpgs who had sympathetic flights.

If they gave more development to Hermes and Meteion a little more then yeah.

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Originally Posted by Alec97

Yeah except the ancients who could create anything and are an allegory for the heavenly host, along with the primals who can do the same thing as well.

The gods in FF14 are akin to pagan gods and representations of pagan gods in literature. I dont know where you get the idea that there is no such thing as a god in the setting as it's simply not true. What you have done is say that God is made and influenced by aether and thought. Therefore, they couldn't be a god is a really weird line of logic as you as a person are, made of the materials of the world and are inherently influenced by those around you, you act differently and beleive different things based on others so why wouldn't a pagan God? Is there no such thing as a person now?

These gods are not godheads they are individual beings that are manifestations of functions of the world/universe. That's a god. Zeus constantly changes his mind and is influenced by man is he suddenly not a god, or is a god only a being similar to that of the father where He births the universe where He sees, knows and is all things?

The gods in FF14 and other works are more than just summons they are the embodiment of universal and eternal ideals that existed long before man and were enacted by them. They will still exist even if we stop believing in them and our interpretation of these fundamental rules or truths will evolve with us, does that mean the Gods have changed or has our understanding of them changed?

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You're free to have your own take but this is getting into real head canon territory. The whole story line of FF14 has been pretty explicit that "gods" are constructs of faith/willpower and aether, they only take embodiments because living believers think they should, they ARE just a form of (powerful) summons. The FF14 universe is pretty scientific and mechanical, it's not some spiritual take on religions from Earth's history even when it uses references like Greek myths to anchor the player's engagement with something familiar.

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Originally Posted by Ranaku

Y'shtola feels like a self insert character of the story writers, like she merged with Ishikawa when she entered the aetherial sea and now we have this cat demigod that dies every expansion and already knows everything.

And i am mortified to know that she will be right there with us in Dawntrail cause we already saw her in the trailer. So it will be just another expansion of this story that slowly starts to feel rather like a fan-fiction than what it used to be in HW.

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Might be in a minority here, but I can't stand Y'shtola. I'd take being an entire expansion with Urianger speaking in old English with riddles than having to be with the Scion whose only personality traits are "I like sweets" and "Hah got cha' I'm so smart and snarky".

If she wasn't a Miqo'Te I bet all my Gil her fan base would be smaller. Since she's the flagship Catgirl she gets immediate attention, despite the being plenty of more attractive and interesting Catgirls in the game. I'm surprised that thread didn't get down voted to oblivion since the subreddit is like the Church of Y'shtola.

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Originally Posted by Aldath

Might be in a minority here, but I can't stand Y'shtola. I'd take being an entire expansion with Urianger speaking in old English with riddles than having to be with the Scion whose only personality traits are "I like sweets" and "Hah got cha' I'm so smart and snarky".

If she wasn't a Miqo'Te I bet all my Gil her fan base would be smaller. Since she's the flagship Catgirl she gets immediate attention, despite the being plenty of more attractive and interesting Catgirls in the game. I'm surprised that thread didn't get down voted to oblivion since the subreddit is like the Church of Y'shtola.

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Imagine if she were a femroe and think how many "fans" she would have.

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Originally Posted by aveyond-dreams

Imagine if she were a femroe and think how many "fans" she would have.

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People liked moenbryda and she was in all of 2 patches.

Her personality is what's entertaining to me, not her appearance.

But then, you hate her anyway, Mr "Y'shtola is only a 3, so she can't talk back to Magnai, who is a 7 or 8"