About the Blessing of Light and the Echo

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I've been thinking about this thread as a I replay content and here are some observations:

• I don't believe we ever see anyone with the Blessing of Light who doesn't also have the Echo. So the Echo may be a prerequisite to have the Blessing of Light.

• It seems like having the Blessing of Light and being a Warrior of Light are the same thing?

• For our WoL as well as the Warriors of Light from The First, acquiring a Crystal of Light gifted to them by Hydaelyn after an act of heroism seemed to be a meaningful aspect of — if not the defining feature of — what makes someone a Warrior of Light. This theory seems reinforced by the fact that when Midgardsormr removes the Blessing of Light from our WoL, it is represented by the removal of the 6 Crystals of Light we had previously collected.

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This isn't quite true as our Minfillia, Krile, and Arenvald all have the blessing of light (two who state this being the case) all don't have their own crystal of light. Meanwhile Yasale as we know has a crystal of light. That is unless the single crystal she uses is just an ice crystal while transforming into Shiva while free falling and not a crystal of light tm. Then I'm not sure if Ramza et all or even Tenzen had their own crystals yet we know Ramza and Tenzen were the Warrior of Light of their time.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

This isn't quite true as our Minfillia, Krile, and Arenvald all have the blessing of light (two who state this being the case) all don't have their own crystal of light.

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Do you recall where it's stated that any of these 3 have the Blessing of Light? I did some research as I wasn't quite sure myself and what I found was only mentions of them having the Echo, but never the Blessing of Light.

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Originally Posted by SannaR

Meanwhile Yasale as we know has a crystal of light. That is unless the single crystal she uses is just an ice crystal while transforming into Shiva while free falling and not a crystal of light tm.

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Hmmm, it does have the same shape. Is the crystal she holds in that scene revealed at a previous point in the story? If so that might be the key to identifying whether it was a Crystal of Light.

Another thought: if the Echo prevents tempering, and all Ancients had the Echo, then that suggests that the Convocation could not have been tempered by Zodiark. Which honestly makes sense, as numerous named members of the Convocation commit acts that presumably they would not have been able to do if they were actually brainwashed into loyalty (Fandaniel and Mitron are the obvious examples, and there are arguments to be made for both Lahabrea and Emet-Selch).

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Another thought: if the Echo prevents tempering, and all Ancients had the Echo, then that suggests that the Convocation could not have been tempered by Zodiark. Which honestly makes sense, as numerous named members of the Convocation commit acts that presumably they would not have been able to do if they were actually brainwashed into loyalty (Fandaniel and Mitron are the obvious examples, and there are arguments to be made for both Lahabrea and Emet-Selch).

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The Echo doesn't prevent tempering. That's an effect of the traveler's ward.

As for Zodiark; we're told point blank by the story the Convocation was tempered when they summoned him. Tempering is as its core the victim's aether being shifted strongly toward a particular elemental affinity, with a side effect of this being the erosion of their will and subsequent loyalty to the primal responsible. Beings with greater aetherial density are less vulnerable to it, as we saw with Tiamat. The ancients, being seemingly even more aetherially dense than Midgardsormr's brood, would logically retain even more autonomy than that.

Emet-Selch is a strange case, to be sure. He made it clear several times he was tired of the entire debacle, even attempting to settle down with his (as Solus) mortal family and abandon the cause entirely. This was of course thwarted when his son died, but the fact he was able to do it at all indicates a very high degree of resistance. Of course, this could in part be attributed to Zodiark's absence and/or the likelihood of it never having never really issued commands to its summoners to start with. They were tempered, but their "god's" only real purpose was to safeguard and heal the star.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The Echo doesn't prevent tempering. That's an effect of the traveler's ward.

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I believe you are mistaken; it's explicitly stated that the Echo's protection against tempering is why Ysayle comes to fight Ravana with you, why Krile is able to help you against the Warring Triad, and why Arenvald and Fordola are able to help you against Lakshmi when she starts shooting...tempering orbs.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

I believe you are mistaken; it's explicitly stated that the Echo's protection against tempering is why Ysayle comes to fight Ravana with you, why Krile is able to help you against the Warring Triad, and why Arenvald and Fordola are able to help you against Lakshmi when she starts shooting...tempering orbs.

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The Echo seems to allow people to resist tempering (and shield others, to a certain degree). It can and indeed has been overpowered. The traveler's ward outright prevents it. Its primary function is that very thing; preventing the fouling of one's aether.

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Originally Posted by primarisgoazrr

The Echo
- Let’s you see into someone/something’s past (can be controlled apparently)
- Resist primal/corrupting influence (or impose your own influence in the case of resonant)
- A Universal translator
- Some users have unique ability

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In addition, there are some other qualities of the Echo that the WoL hasn't used yet (and may never use) but are worth mentioning as canonically being part of it:
- The ability to prevent your soul from returning to the Lifestream after death, and instead take control of another body.
- The ability to fuse with another person, as igeyorhmand Lahabrea demonstrate (as well as Lahabrea and Athena).

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

In addition, there are some other qualities of the Echo that the WoL hasn't used yet (and may never use) but are worth mentioning as canonically being part of it:
- The ability to prevent your soul from returning to the Lifestream after death, and instead take control of another body.
- The ability to fuse with another person, as igeyorhmand Lahabrea demonstrate (as well as Lahabrea and Athena).

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The Echo does not mean full access to abilities displayed by the ancients. As its name implies, it's little more than a faint echo of what its holders' past selves once wielded.

The unsundered Ascians retained most, if not all of their original power in this regard. Fragmented Ascians appeared to gain access to an abnormal amount of their former power after being "elevated." As for Zenos; his artificial Echo (at least before they seemingly partly walked it back in EW) seemed to be giving him many abilities beyond those present within a "natural" Echo, more specifically abilities we would typically attribute to Ascians.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The Echo does not mean full access to abilities displayed by the ancients. As its name implies, it's little more than a faint echo of what its holders' past selves once wielded.

The unsundered Ascians retained most, if not all of their original power in this regard. Fragmented Ascians appeared to gain access to an abnormal amount of their former power after being "elevated." As for Zenos; his artificial Echo (at least before they seemingly partly walked it back in EW) seemed to be giving him many abilities beyond those present within a "natural" Echo, more specifically abilities we would typically attribute to Ascians.

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I agree with the spirit of your words, in that it's possible that certain flavors of Echo might not have all of the abilities. But technically, Lahabrea and Elidibus explicitly describe these powers as being part of Echo, so they feel worth incorporating into a list of the capabilities of the Echo. Noting that these powers may not be available to everyone with the Echo is a good clarification, though.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

The Echo seems to allow people to resist tempering (and shield others, to a certain degree). It can and indeed has been overpowered. The traveler's ward outright prevents it. Its primary function is that very thing; preventing the fouling of one's aether.

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Is there an example of someone with the Echo being tempered?

The only thing I can recall is Emet-Selch saying that Zodiark tempered the Convocation, which I'm hesitant to embrace as objective lore because he is at times an unreliable source.