Dragon Sight change - Just remove positionals already

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

Positionals have never limited boss design and I don't know where you people keep getting this idea from. It never stopped them from making fights that were impossible to get 100% positional uptime on before like E9S. Removing them isn't going to magically make SE not reuse the same mechanics they already do for almost every fight anyway.

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We use our eyes and experiences to judge all the content in the game and determine that positionals tend to either make a boss frustrating (randomly spinning bosses in dungeons,) or static (most fights where the boss is held in the middle facing a given direction.)

No, really. All you have to do is open your eyes. Every fight with new or unique mechanics always has positional requirements removed. Hell, everything about Delubrum Reginae is rather unique in execution and the entire place is bereft of positionals. So would I rather have P8S P1 where the boss is always in the middle, or neo-exdeath where the boss constantly cleaves the arena in different ways, forces people into and out of melee range, and constantly darts around the arena? When it's all said and done, I'd rather have 100 fights like neo-exdeath.

Wall fights almost always do more interesting things than fights with positionals. And the one draggable savage boss that didn't have positional requirements also happens to be one of the more unique takes on any boss mechanics the game has seen in a long while. And I'm talking as a caster main, not a melee main. Removing positionals wouldn't even get me onto mDPS most likely, and I'd still prefer it because the fights without positionals are almost always a lot more fun.

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Originally Posted by zeth07

Is your enjoyment of fights based on the fact that you have to do positionals or not?

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In part, yes. Just as it is in part dependent on other means of movement/apm. I like... doing things.

Positionals are the one way to provide additional apm that doesn't even require additional buttons and can be contextually varied; they're therefore exceedingly efficient, design-wise, in giving me more to do.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

They're also an integral part of why boss design is static.

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But they're not? Back when we had more positionals and they were each more punishing... we also had fewer and less static (of) boss designs.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

But they're not? Back when we had more positionals and they were each more punishing... we also had fewer and less static (of) boss designs.

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Such as? Because when I think of interesting fights they've done, I think of Neo Exdeath, or Leviathan Savage. Even Titan Savage when he jumps. They have limited mobility on some fights, like E9S where it just randomly jumps to a side, but 90% of the boss is just a stationary boss facing north with nothing changing.

Then I look at P2S and see the devs finally shaping the arena and limiting the player's walkable area and think: "Wow, why haven't they been doing this all this time?" Even P7S, the dumpster fire of a fight that it is, at least tries to be interesting, and it mostly succeeds at it in a way P8SP1 or P4S in general never truly succeeds.

Then there's literally all of Delubrum Reginae Savage, which represents some of my personal favorite fights in the entire game, doing unique things in different ways. The entire chess mechanic is just fun. And not caring about positionals in general enhanced the enjoyment, especially in the high stakes fight of DRS where deaths are serious problems.

Really, please, feel free to try to pretend fights in the past have somehow been more interesting when having positionals. They are extremely few and extremely far between.

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Originally Posted by Taranok

Really, please, feel free to try to pretend fights in the past have somehow been more interesting when having positionals.

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Yes really? Lets apply your logic...

• Zodiark isn't more interesting then Hydaelyn
• Endsinger neither vs Barbariccia
• Eden Leviathan Savage worse then Titan/Eden's Promise
• P2S water-dog-horse is worse then P3S / P4S both phases
• P7S unironically even more boring then P6S due to optimization strats
• P8S phase2 is less fun then P8S phase1 in every way
• Rathalos EX better then Seiryu EX? really? like really? no really?
• Wanna compare ARR Leviathan EX vs ARR Titan EX

Anyone wanna argue how Bismarck EX was the best Heavensward EX ever in thread cause its Carapace had no positionals? And unless you wanna name Dun Scaith's Deathgaze Hollow, every alliance raid with a boss that has no positionals isn't more interesting to me either.

• Not Hobs and Engels vs TypeS
• Not Puppets Bunker's 1st boss vs Mustadio
• Not False Idol phase1 vs phase2

Trying to be more interesting? is not being more interesting. By your logic, lets not pretend just cause something has NO positionals that it somehow is more interesting either, cause it definitely wasn't for me.

Fun/Difficulty/Interests remains subjective. But Removing Positionals does not magically make Square fullfill an empty promise to replace it with something better in any way either. There's Zero proof... that positionals existing stood in the way of any fight design or mechanic ever being developed, mhm.

positionals suck, please remove them thanks.

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Originally Posted by Tizzy_Tormentor

Yeah, why not, the jobs are already barebones as they are, might as well remove one of the last points of skill expression the melee have left at this point.

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Maybe replace it with something....better? Something less...annoying? If there so easy...then at least make them fun.

I think the only way they can solve this debate is tie your gauge to positionals. Since getting gauge is so simple and uninspired. And positionals are so easy they are more of an annoyance.

Then combine them. Take away the potency gained...and apply it to your gauge. Make all melee have this mechanic. So by playing extremely well you're rewarded not with 20 potency buff...but instead an additional Forbidden Chackra, additional soul gauge, more kenki, more ninki.

Thinking outside of the box here. But I would go out on a limb here and say this is probably mostly what plagues melee jobs. Just a lack of synergized gameplay mechanics. Nothing complements anything. Currently gauge will just auto fill when you do your rotation, and positionals just give a slight SLIGHT boost to damage. If the devs created a better way in which these two aspects of a melee interacted, then melee would be MUCH more engaging and rewarding to play.

This is why you have those that think positionals are dumb...and those that find that slight reward for completing positionals essential to the identity of a melee job.

My perdiction....positionals are REOMVED from the game come 7.0. (Drastic but "necessary" route)
Or at the VERY least melee jobs burst phases get a True North modifier added to there premiere ability. Everything outside of your burst is dependent on hitting positionals correctly...of which I would think is a good compromise. And with the way Savage/Ultimate is being designed I don't think positionals will stay...dungeons are not designed around playing top tier. EX MAYBE on the same level....but some fights can be tight dps check.

Kind of feel the writing is on the wall at this point for postionals.

How about, don't change poslitionals. Just change the mobs that require them for the bonus damage. Keep it in raid/trial content. Remove it from some other content (which is up for debate).

I was very happy when they removed 2 positionals from monk with the rework in endwalker. Imagine my elation when I found out just before launch that it was 4 positionals removed.

MNK was the first job I capped at 90. I love taking it into extremes when I have them on farm. It's identity is still there. It's still fast and frenetic gameplay. Still fun. Tank at heart...but man MNK is fun. WAYYYY less annoying to play now then it was in SHB. Quite a few mnks in my FC have said the same thing also. MNK is pretty well designed now and much less annoying to play.

My static holds and "alt" night, get drunk, we go in on our alternate jobs in savage content. I take my mnk in there and even though we may not clear...it's for shear memes. Fun as hell.