Why do people avoid getting better at the game?

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Not to mention the possibility of the dev team needing to account for the lowest common denominator of player skill, and therefore needing to basically strip jobs of the mechanics and decision-making that some players desire in order to accommodate. But that's something of a subjective issue, these days.

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Casual content is made for casuals, and its therefore easy

Hardcore content is made for hardcore raiders, and its therefore very hard

???

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Originally Posted by Theox

Slightly off topic but do y'all remember that msq in endwalker when we had to play as a soldier and people literally created threads about it being too hard and the devs nerfed it? So yeah, what are we talking about again?

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Hey, no subscription left behind! Unless they didn't pay up... *rubs tip of thumb and index finger together*

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Originally Posted by Jamini

Uh, from what I've heard Ifrit (Hard) when it was relevant actually *was* harder than modern Cognazzo. I wasn't around then, but I've heard it was actually fairly challenging when it was released (as was Titan(Hard)!)

Don't compare level early leveling dungeons to level cap dungeons. Compare it cap to cap.

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I didn't say Ifrit HM. I said Ifrit NM. The light party version of him. And no, Cagnazzo actually has more mechanics than Ifrit HM, and some of them are reused/updated mechanics from The Bowel of Embers including multiple dashes and nails.

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Originally Posted by MintnHoney

Not to mention the possibility of the dev team needing to account for the lowest common denominator of player skill, and therefore needing to basically strip jobs of the mechanics and decision-making that some players desire in order to accommodate. But that's something of a subjective issue, these days.

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Savage and Ultimate has consistently getting harder, so I don't see where this LCD claim coming from. You're just projecting because you want the "easy" content to become harder to carter your taste. The game clearly draw 2 circles for people to stand in, and everyone is free to visit the others, but you don't get to make the other territory yours.

Class and system streamlining is unfortunately are always part of the growing pain for any game that stay around too long and get too big. Name me one main stream game that have been around a long time and is exception to this, I'm all ears. So this particular complain certainly is valid, but also it is like complain about why we don't look as good as we getting old.

This is one of the reason that no matter how much I like FF14 I don't wish for it to go on forever. Eventually the game will buckle under its own weight and all resource will simply have to go into maintenance instead of creating something news. I would much prefer we hit a reset point with a completely new MMO from SE eventually.

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Originally Posted by Jamini

Uh, from what I've heard Ifrit (Hard) when it was relevant actually *was* harder than modern Cognazzo. I wasn't around then, but I've heard it was actually fairly challenging when it was released (as was Titan(Hard)!)

Don't compare level early leveling dungeons to level cap dungeons. Compare it cap to cap.

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I admit, I had far more trouble in those early 2.0 trials than I do in the modern now. But I bet it had more to do with circumstance rather than the actual difficulties:

- The game was relative new, and everyone was equally no0bs. Titan was hard for me because I misunderstood how attack was telegraphed in FF14, which was almost the complete opposite how it was in WoW. Case in point, how often you see a sprout struggle and failing a mechanic that you can do with your eye closed? Me, all the time. Also during my down time I'm a MMO tourist who also try out other games. My experience in doing savage/ultimate often means squat, and I would fail simple mechanic that the veterans of those games think "easy".

- There weren't a lot of seasoned veteran to carry a failing group. You come in and you have to pull your weight, there is no "doritos" to follow that will get you to the end of the fight even if you don't understand the mechanic.


It's not a question of the player skill, it's about the institution knowledge you accumulate. This is what people who so good at this game and demand the "casual" content to be harder don't understand. As the veteran with that ingrained knowledge about the game, to make the casual content challenge enough to entertain them would also make said content pretty much prohibitively difficult for its actual intended audiences.

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Originally Posted by R041

I feel like we're at a point where Yoshi needs to legitimately just consider a 'Story Mode

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Aka, Duty Support

Same reason average people don’t try to “git gud” at Uno, or checkers, or tic tac toe.

It’s entirely unnecessary to play and get through 99% of the game. If you are talking endgame raids/hardmode, then yeah sure gotta get better…but that’s not the vast majority of the game.

If the inclusion of NPCs to carry players through dungeons wasn’t a clue, the selling point of the game is the story and/or hang-out-with-friends aspect, not “look at mah l33t gamer skills”.

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Originally Posted by DixieBellOCE

The answer is simple. There is no reason to get better at the game.

XIV offers such a casual experience that the player base has never had a reason to actually get better at game mechanics outside of those who wish to participate in Extreme/Savage/Ultimate content.

The player base get babysat through the entire game, even get difficulty DROPS in MSQ instances because.. it is too hard?

There is no reason to babysit people. People adapt and become better players by being challenged, even if it is only a small challenge.

There will always be that crowd that shouts for nerfs to content because they don't want to actually have to learn to play the game, Those players will complain about everything that makes them have to actually think while playing.

Content does not have to be 'Extreme/Savage' level of difficulty to be challenging. The final duty in 6.0 was a good example of this. It was not hard, but it DID challenge people and they learned from their mistakes and eventually cleared it.

What could change?
What incentives would be required to get people to try out new content?

Who knows, Discuss below.

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As there no need for it. What you get from it? The harder content normally do not drop any thing people need. No good looking glams. and you can just do it later unsinked 10 level stronger that the content really need.there need to be more that 5% of harder content for people to care.
One more problem is the % of players that even care to finish the msq so they can open this harder content. If you look around you be surprised how much never finish the msq.

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Originally Posted by Jamini

Uh, from what I've heard Ifrit (Hard) when it was relevant actually *was* harder than modern Cognazzo. I wasn't around then, but I've heard it was actually fairly challenging when it was released (as was Titan(Hard)!)

Don't compare level early leveling dungeons to level cap dungeons. Compare it cap to cap.

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It was more to do with the mechanics being very punishing and/or a need to grind out gear just to survive their limit breaks. This was a time when you needed to get ultima jewelry and use vit+ materia on your white mage just to have enough hp. And/or grind tomestone gear just to get a specific amount of HP.

Also…In essence, Ifrit was a DPS check, Titan was a “watch the ground” check, and Garuda was a Tank check (had to provoke and hold the Chirada/what’s her face away from each other).

I’m over simplifying, but that was kind of the beginning of insta-kill with no rez for mistakes and/or tank swaps.

With current trials, it is (and should be) entirely reasonable to clear them as long as you do mechanics right with the minimum ilvl required for the fight. In the Wild West days of FFXIV, this wasn’t necessarily a thing. Materia (and grinding out materia) played a much bigger role.

Gonna need to point out a couple of things to you.
1)Other people are different from you. They might have different preferences.
2)You do not pay for their sub.
3)Casual players give SE money, and SE likes money.

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Originally Posted by R041

I feel like we're at a point where Yoshi needs to legitimately just consider a 'Story Mode', where they're not forced to do Dungeons, Trials, Duties. The game is just getting worse because we're sacrificing engaging challenges for the lowest common denominator.

Maybe let them do the combat content without rewards, and give them an action button or something that kills shit quickly.

I don't mind if they have some kinda mode that lets them just enjoy the story, why would I care? I just wanna play a fun game, so if they wanna play a Visual Novel, then so be it. But don't rework the whole damn game because of it.

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Oooh, sooooo dramatic. The game is being ruined, oooooh! *lmao*