keeping pace with savage raid gearing.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Many people have said that FFXIV does not have a treadmill.

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You misunderstand what they mean then. It does not have a treadmill to begin raiding like WoW does because crafted gear is enough. But it does have a gear treadmill to max item level if you are interested in max item level and always has.

Crafted gear is enough to do almost all content in the game except ultimates. The gear makes you more powerful, which is fun, but it's not really necessary to do things and that is probably what those people mean.

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Why is the OP being blamed for not “grinding” enough? What game is this?

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A game with a gear treadmill.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I'd be down to loosening the tome cap earlier on, aswell as loosing the weekly loot lockout.

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A lot of people don't clear that fast. There are still parties up progressing through it now. It would end the tier for them much too early.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

No, I clearly mentioned an alt and that I had done tiers without a static and had plenty of loot then too. I think OP just hasn't been clearing for many weeks yet and just doesn't want to do the necessary amount of reclears.

The loot was nerfed a lot this tier as well. Boots drop from both P6S and P7S. The amount of books they cost was reduced.

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It still has nothing to do with the fact that you're at the mercy of RNG as a PF raider. I spent exactly eight weeks without winning anything on P5S reclears trying to gear up a healer alt job. Of course, I can get there with the pity books, but it's a terribly disheartening process.

What we could have without disrupting the flow of statics too much is simply 2 different loot modes defined by the party leader: one as it is today and a second one that will keep people from getting multiple chests at the same time.

Of course, you'd still be facing RNG, but much less so when you know that at the very least the same person can't get every loot in the fight.

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Originally Posted by Jokerz_93

Sorry if I ask, but do you really run hardcore endgame contents?
From what I can see, you don't.

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I've raided from ARR to ShB. It was a pointless treadmill and I exited. However the savage loot system is mostly unchanged since SB. If anything, it has become more friendly to players (dropping slot coffers instead of "slot of fending").

My earlier post still stands.

-You get to pick when you want to raid.
-You don't have to trek through some dangerous areas of the game to get to the raid mob. You click a button and the instance just pops.
-There's no competing against other raid groups for a shot at killing the mob.
-The barrier to entry into raiding is ridiculously low (look at how many players have cleared Normal mode - 37% of the playerbase has cleared normal. It isn't like we have to do anything difficult to gain access to it.
-There is no experience penalty for dying.
-There is essentially no gil penalty of dying.

There's nothing to lose. It isn't like you wipe on a boss, drop to level 89, have to run back to fetch your gear on your corpse... and all the while some other group has pulled the boss over your group. It isn't like you have to clear P5-7S every time you wipe on P8S.

If anything, from someone that has raided in MMOs for over 20 years, just because I haven't bothered with EW raiding doesn't mean my input has no value.

And frankly, when I read other posts here about players that "only" have 25 drops so far... is this their first MMO? Just because obtaining so many other items in this game is easy, doesn't mean savage gear should be as easy.

What's the value in it if it is easy to obtain?

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Originally Posted by Raikai

What we could have without disrupting the flow of statics too much is simply 2 different loot modes defined by the party leader: one as it is today and a second one that will keep people from getting multiple chests at the same time.

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That's a great idea for PF. Auto pass on loot when something drops in your inventory, like in normal mode. Then people can Need what they want the most and Greed the rest. Probably should have a separate roll for music and mounts though.

They could also add a "books only" mode where no gear or tokens drop at all and everyone gets 2 books instead of 1 book. It's slightly less loot overall but it would be great for those who hate RNG. It would also make it easier for parties where someone has already cleared that week.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

If anything, it has become more friendly to players (dropping slot coffers instead of "slot of fending").

If anything, from someone that has raided in MMOs for over 20 years, just because I haven't bothered with EW raiding doesn't mean my input has no value.

is this their first MMO?

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Yep, and people are going to have to realize that FFXIV is an old-fashioned game built by one of the stalwart old-timers himself (Yoshida) for a similar audience.

Except, one small problem…many people who are playing games these days are under 20. They do not care about tradition like we do. They have no loyalty to our systems. This game might die in the next couple of years and be the last of its kind. Then your 20 years of experience will be useless just like my years on Neopets. Would it be worth it?

is it worth it. was the last 10 years of your life "worth it"? treading into some deep sunken cost fallacy territory here. were you expecting to like make a profit out of having played the game for multiple years or something?

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Yep, and people are going to have to realize that FFXIV is an old-fashioned game built by one of the stalwart old-timers himself (Yoshida) for a similar audience.

Except, one small problem…many people who are playing games these days are under 20. They do not care about tradition like we do. They have no loyalty to our systems. This game might die in the next couple of years and be the last of its kind. Then your 20 years of experience will be useless just like my years on Neopets. Would it be worth it?

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Games can't just cater to the old school, first-gen MMO players. I've had the opportunity to go back and play those earlier generation MMOs. Sadly, I just can't do it. I don't have the time. But I will say... I felt that the rewards "felt better" when they were rare, hard-to-obtain, not guaranteed, etc.

As far as FFXIV goes , there really aren't many pieces of gear I have that I'm attached to. It isn't like I'm going to break out the Raid Drop Cuirass of Fending and think about the good times I had with 7+ other players, the struggles we had and the adversity we overcame while obtaining them. And that's ok. It winds up just being GC seal trash in the end. In other games, I would be able to make that association with gear I obtained with dozens of other players in attendance.

Even with how today's "hardcore" is still tailored for yesteryear's casuals, I can't be that hardcore player anymore. I'm glad FFXIV is the way it is. But we can still pine for the "good ol' days" of MMO's past.

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Originally Posted by caffe_macchiato

Yep, and people are going to have to realize that FFXIV is an old-fashioned game built by one of the stalwart old-timers himself (Yoshida) for a similar audience.

Except, one small problem…many people who are playing games these days are under 20. They do not care about tradition like we do. They have no loyalty to our systems. This game might die in the next couple of years and be the last of its kind. Then your 20 years of experience will be useless just like my years on Neopets. Would it be worth it?

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I gotta ask, what with you and these kind of post that just seem trying to pitch "generations" against each others? In the other topic you seem to act like a young person trash talking the boomers, but here you're playing the part of someone old enough to remember the "old" day?

No disrespect, but ... you're coming across as someone who trying to pretend to know, without actually knowing that it looks like if you think FF14 is catering to the "old timers" in any shape or form.

The first generation of MMO actually weren't much different than the typical cash-grab super hardcore grinding Korean MMO. When WoW comes about, one of the reason it took the world by storm was because comparing to Everquest, Ultimate Online or Runescape, it was super-casual-friendly. It's far less punishing, far less grinding, and people love it for the fact reward come at faster pace. And guess what, the current iteration of FF14 is even more casual friendly than WoW at the time.

So saying FF14 is built for stalwart old-timers from 20 years ago is ... completely and utterly rubbish.

On top of it all, I don't like how they make it so that if you do the higher floor first during reclear, you won't get any loot from the previous floors.
It looks very outdated. The instances are separate and yet they interfere with each other.

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Originally Posted by Lieri

On top of it all, I don't like how they make it so that if you do the higher floor first during reclear, you won't get any loot from the previous floors.
It looks very outdated. The instances are separate and yet they interfere with each other.

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That's how raids used to be in other games. You would have to go through a series of bosses. They are separate for the sake of convenience, nothing more.