Abyssos is fun for tanks because Warriors can't cheese it

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Originally Posted by AttilaHetzel

I don't think that's a good example, or any would be, because warrior will always be the "best" for each of those scenarios

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WAR hasn't been the "best" for anything in a while. Yeah, you've historically been able to use Holmgang for some glorious shenanigans, but the vast majority of groups didn't bother save in those situations where WAR found itself blessed with an acceptable level of level of damage. They preferred bringing tanks with higher DPS. WAR's sustain is vastly overhyped, its mitigation is kinda crappy compared to GNB and DRK's, and its damage is potential is lower than FFXIV's average player skill level.

Being able to cheese something and being the "best" are two very different things. This is a game built in such a way that only damage, mitigating when/if warranted, and performing mechanics correctly are of consequence. All other considerations are secondary at best.

The only form of content WAR truly breaks is dungeons. In everything else it's quite meh.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

WAR hasn't been the "best" for anything in a while. Yeah, you've historically been able to use Holmgang for some glorious shenanigans, but the vast majority of groups didn't bother save in those situations where WAR found itself blessed with an acceptable level of level of damage. They preferred bringing tanks with higher DPS. WAR's sustain is vastly overhyped, its mitigation is kinda crappy compared to GNB and DRK's, and its damage is potential is lower than FFXIV's average player skill level.

Being able to cheese something and being the "best" are two very different things. This is a game built in such a way that only damage, mitigating when/if warranted, and performing mechanics correctly are of consequence. All other considerations are secondary at best.

The only form of content WAR truly breaks is dungeons. In everything else it's quite meh.

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This comment is actually the best so far, I'd disagree that their kit is meh compared to DRK and GNB, I've seen people bringing it up several times, but I play those classes, for DRK it depends a lot since dark mind is magical only, but also on the fight we're talking about, GNB is a closer comparison in my eyes, given that HOC is a free 30% mit for 4s then 15% but the healing can be quite significant, healing a DRK requires more effort, but a GNB can be ok with some shields alone from healers (all this assuming we don't kitchen sink, because yeah a DRK can solo a condensed on p7s, but then they have no mit for the next buster, which granted they could invul, I just wouldn't on a pf, totally ok with static).

Totally agree on the rest, I thought it was clear on my post that I disagree with WAR being the best cuz they can cheese, but just in case, yes that's what I meant. Ultimately being the easiest to play, I guess my perspective comes from playing so much with them, then again, it's the most accessible tank for people just like WHM is for healers, and therefore would be more played than other classes. For the rest I guess it's also my server, most strats account for a WAR cheese, so much in fact that sometimes I would join a PF and my co tank would say that they have never MT the fight and have to talk about swaps and mit before going in because they're used to the WAR doing all (and this annoyed me as much as people not wanting to do uwu because no one had auto markers for titan)

I don't think Square Enix balances anything with damage output in mind, and only adjusts it reactively based on community outrage. I don't view the big damage state of DRK as anything other than something that miraculously happened, and it definately wasn't some design decision they made with the job.

In which I could definately see WAR cheese being a problem on their radar higher than actual damage output.
Bit weird to think about but this is a game where the player base actively dreads job reworks for a reason.

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Originally Posted by Oizen

I don't think Square Enix balances anything with damage output in mind, and only adjusts it reactively based on community outrage. I don't view the big damage state of DRK as anything other than something that miraculously happened, and it definately wasn't some design decision they made with the job.

In which I could definately see WAR cheese being a problem on their radar higher than actual damage output.
Bit weird to think about but this is a game where the player base actively dreads job reworks for a reason.

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I mean the reason people dread these reworks is more or likely because square does a really bad job in 80 % of the cases. Like stormblood lily white mage is a good example. They had even feedback from the community telling them it’s shit. Or how they tried making warrior work in arr and that took them like 2-3 tries if I remember correctly. Or they take 1 ability away (kaiten) and tell you it’s fine. The job design team has in a lot of situations with no real direction we’re they wanna go (biggest offender are healer)

Doesn't help that Stormblood also destroyed DRK pretty hard, and Shadowbringers basically did it again. We've been on life support in Endwalker.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Doesn't help that Stormblood also destroyed DRK pretty hard, and Shadowbringers basically did it again. We've been on life support in Endwalker.

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Damage is DRK's first copium and its final hope.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Damage is DRK's first copium and its final hope.

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Forget damage, I'd rather do PLD's damage if it meant DRK actually felt good to play.

definitely a subjective take. I personally found it more fun when tanks actually had to balance dmg and enmity while also moving the boss into position. What we have now are just glorified striking dummies that re-center and face N for mechanics every time. Not to mention hit boxes so big that I question why we have more than one charge of gap closer.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

definitely a subjective take. I personally found it more fun when tanks actually had to balance dmg and enmity while also moving the boss into position. What we have now are just glorified striking dummies that re-center and face N for mechanics every time. Not to mention hit boxes so big that I question why we have more than one charge of gap closer.

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Thats funny because I felt exactly the opposite, I feel way more involved as tank now and fights feel busier than past savage tiers. I have to deal with way more mechanics, movement and swaps then before. Positioning outside of P5S and the somewhat in P8S P1 is not a thing anymore though thats true. Other then that this tier has been pretty fun as tank in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

definitely a subjective take. I personally found it more fun when tanks actually had to balance dmg and enmity while also moving the boss into position. What we have now are just glorified striking dummies that re-center and face N for mechanics every time. Not to mention hit boxes so big that I question why we have more than one charge of gap closer.

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I can somewhat agree to this, I dislike "turn stance on and hold aggro and forget"

Despite this I do enjoy tanking, I just like the Idea that holding aggro is something you have to give a bit of thought to.