Patch 6.21 - DPS Roles & the State of Endgame Balance

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

I don't like it but we have to admit it's great to avoid balance slip-up.
During ShB pRange were low but high enough to make the 1% worth it.

If it wasn't there, pRange would not be played at all since ShB.

I feel that the more jobs we have, the less useful the 1% bonus role will be.
We get more and more jobs and each other is competing for one spot among one or two available slots.
During HW we had 7 DPS fighting for 4 spots, now we have 3 Caster/Range fighting for 1 spot each and soon, probably 4 casters fighting among themselves for a single spot.

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And God help us if the rumors are true are the casters are gonna be split between raise casters and damage casters.

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Originally Posted by Rilifane

And I specifically mentioned different forms of utility because I don't think all jobs should bring the same thing. And I strongly question the notion that bringing any form of utility is the same as homogenization. Samba/ Tactician/ Troubadour doing the same thing on the same cooldown with a different icon is homogenization. Giving one prange oGCD healing, one more mit and one refresh/ movement speed isn't in my opinion.

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But it is.
Just a different kind than - by your example - role abilities.

If the support utility is of visible value, the job is now a support job and cannot be allowed to clearly outsrip others jobs in the same role by the way of pure dps.

Despite of how much MCH needs buffs to its overall rDPS performance, you can clearly see its heads above BRD and DNC in aDPS, in fact its above SMN and RDM as it should be (many, including me, would argue its should be at least shoulder-to-shoulder with some support melee).

So where do a MCH enjoyer takes its gun for example?
* soloing original group content
* deep dungeons
* treasure maps in very small parties to maximize lootz

Give him meaningfull group support abilities, and he no longer has a leg to stand on, keeping his pure dps advantage.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

And God help us if the rumors are true are the casters are gonna be split between raise casters and damage casters.

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Jesus, if that's true. I'm straight up quitting caster DPS. I'll just be a sheep and play melee DPS.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

And God help us if the rumors are true are the casters are gonna be split between raise casters and damage casters.

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Wouldn't this just be separating Black Mage from everyone else? Or are they giving us another damage-focused caster in 7.0?

The main reason for this is blatantly obvious. The Dev team did not do the play test even if they did it was with the top performing jobs and neglected the under performing jobs: BLM should be dealing more than SAM at 100 barse, RDM should not be in the place they are in, MCH has been totally forgotten by the devs seeing they only buffed PLD and WAR "WHICH IS NOT ENOUGH OF A BUFF", and to sum it up the fights are leaning toward melee getting 100% uptime not needing them to even greed for their uptime like the previous tiers such as the e9s anti air in and out to get a GCD in etc...

The state of the job balance is blatantly obvious its the job balance team's laziness. And the last time the job balance been this bad was in Heavensward as a note.
Does the devs know pf is slowly leaning toward 3 Melee dps for an easier damage check? 3 F$^#ING MELEE!!!???

First of all the biggest problem is the size of the hitboxes, go back to Stormblood savage raids their hit boxes are much smaller which made it significantly harder to greed melee uptime which made it a fair balance between casters having to greed their casts and melee having to greed their uptime, BUT NOW the uptime for melees are handed on a silver platter not needing any skills to get that uptime while especially in this tier casters having the hardest time with the mechanics forcing them to run back and fourth. BLM should always be on par with SAM (*cough* gutted job) or doing more at Max barse there should be no questions about this (p7s its understandable to be lower).

Secondly you can see which jobs are being neglected and left behind in the dust. Number one in this category has to be MCH a job which they don't know what the heck to do with so just giving random job adjustments that's not even helping the job because all the other jobs are getting an uber buff on top of this. For the tank we see PLD and WAR who are falling extremely far behind GNB and DRK (go watch xeno's stream/clip for p8s for an example) "THE JOB BUFFS AINT ENOUGH"

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...30/PLDSCAM.PNG

WHAT DO U MEAN RANGED ATTACK WHILE DEALING WITH MECHANICS HAVE U SEEN THE BOSS HITBOX DEVS!!!!???

And lastly SMN which is a split between the player base some likes it some hates it (I dont like it personally since it feels like an empty husk) The damage between RDM and SMN should be the same. In this case SMN should never be doing much more especially with how braindead the job is compared to RDM. Im not talking about SAM because I gave up on SE being how ignorant they are (telling us we will do something depending on player feed back which they didn't "showing their lack of dedication toward raiding player base")

The FF14 SE Job Balance team needs to get off their lazy ass and get to work ACTUALLY TRYING OUT THE JOBS.
They said they "play tested" the raid tier. There are 2 answers to this: either they tested but only with the out performing jobs, or they haven't play tested and blatantly lying to us looking at first world streams to get an idea of the job balance.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

And God help us if the rumors are true are the casters are gonna be split between raise casters and damage casters.

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DPS Casters

Black Mage
Necromancer/Geomancer/Whatever

Raise Casters

Summoner
Red Mage

Does both

Blue Mage

I mean I wouldn't put it past them if they want to split off Tanks and Healers with Low Damage MT/High Damage OT and Burst Healer/Shield Healer.

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At this point, I think most of us have zero faith SE can reasonably balance the Prange to where Machinist can be selfish without overshadowing Bard and Dancer.

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It's not faith, it's math. It is not possible, full stop.

Two jobs scale dramatically with group quality. One does not care at all. The scaling jobs *have* to be better in absolute peak quality groups, as that's the only way that situation has a chance to be considered balanced at all.

You can fiddle with the "break-even" point, of course. That is, how good of a group/run do you need for DNC/BRD to catch up to MCH? But the answer right now is that you already need a pretty darn good group. MCH solidly outpaces the other ranged in duty finder content like NM raids, and would be the strongest pranged option for the large majority of statics and PFs.

Is it not large enough of a majority? Maybe. Is being the best ranged in 95+% or something of the game's content/circumstances just not enough for MCH mains? Seemingly not. And yeah, one would figure MCH could at least have gotten a first aid kit or something. But clearly SE is fine with this vision of pranged balance, and whether you or I 100% agree with it or not, it's not an insane stance for them to have. There's a logic to it.


What *is* insane though, is the gap between the de jure physical ranged (+rdm/smn), and the melee jobs they've turned into de facto physical ranged. Complaining about that is a case with far more legs, and while the gap has been too large for years, with the hitbox changes the situation is certainly in the worst state it's ever been in.

Someone really loves deep dungeon lmao. 6 year old content BTW

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Originally Posted by Tamaerl

Wouldn't this just be separating Black Mage from everyone else? Or are they giving us another damage-focused caster in 7.0?

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Well, historically we're due for a new caster. It's the DPS job that has now gone the longest without a new addition to the role. We just got healer and a melee dps so those are good for now, and tank/ranged dps prior to that in ShB, so a caster dps job makes sense. If they keep to the two-per-xpac rule then it's a bit of a crapshoot what we'll get. Only confident thing to say is that it won't be a healer or a melee dps and I personally don't think they'd introduce a fifth tank so soon after a fourth tank, so we might end up getting both a caster and a 4th ranged dps in 7.0. Which makes a kind of sense, since it would boost the ranged dps options up to 4 per general category. Then they could probably further differentiate the caster and ranged physical roles into pure dps/support dps sets, similar to what they did with healers and the pure healer/shield healer designations.

Of course this is all speculation on my part. The only thing I'm certain of nowadays is that SE will bork it all in their mad dash to oversimplify everything that isn't BLM.