[Megathread] What's wrong with 6.21, patch balance and nerfing p8s

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Originally Posted by FireMage

You're also doing the same thing, strawman. Also Embolden is RDM damage, the raise is irrelevant in regards to damage, so that leaves only Barrier as actual utility. Meanwhile RDM has the worst caster movement and is harder to play than each phys ranged and SMN. Dismissed

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Except the Raise isn't irrelevant when it comes to the actual party's damage, just the damage statistics on FFLogs. While the raise wasn't actually usable on p8s, since the dps check was so high that any deaths make the fight almost unclearable, it is impossible to make the argument that the raise doesn't provide utility in most fights if someone dies.

I agree that RDM has the worst mobility at this point, but I will disagree on the difficulty, which is ok. Class difficulty is incredibly subjective, as rotations that click easily for one person might not for somebody else.

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Originally Posted by Serpent1ng

Except the Raise isn't irrelevant when it comes to the actual party's damage, just the damage statistics on FFLogs. While the raise wasn't actually usable on p8s, since the dps check was so high that any deaths make the fight almost unclearable, it is impossible to make the argument that the raise doesn't provide utility in most fights if someone dies.

I agree that RDM has the worst mobility at this point, but I will disagree on the difficulty, which is ok. Class difficulty is incredibly subjective, as rotations that click easily for one person might not for somebody else.

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And the Raise itself is already costing hundreds of potency. That is tax enough. And you disagreeing doesn't stop it from being true

The idea of taxing classes because of utility skills is honestly an odd decision in the current state of FFXIV design. Every dps class has some kind of mitigation: feint, addle, phys range mit that all do the same thing but have different names. Every other utility skill is superfluous, since none of them provide a necessary benefit. The added healing from mantra, improvisation, curing waltz, and arcane crest are all honestly pretty unnoticeable in even savage content, and there are almost never things used need Warden's paean for in high end content. Same with stuns, sleeps, binds, or any other disabling ability.

At the end of the day, all that matters is bringing the bare minimum healing and mitigation required to keep people alive, something accomplished by just the healers and tanks alone practically, and everything else that matters is damage. This makes the DPS number disparity between roles, as well as classes in the same role, extremely problematic. If they are not going to design fights to require at least some utility skills, even at higher item levels, then they need to balance all classes into a similar spot DPS wise.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Strawman. I never said anything about RDM doing BLM damage. You had to invent that I did to have any ground to stand on. Also if you think that phys ranged should do more than RDM you are wrong

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Not trying to Stawman you here so tell me if I'm wrong.
You said that RDM's raise is "irrelevant" regards to balance, on the same sentence I said RDM should be doing a bit better then it currently is right now but also BLM is doing too little. This implies to me that you think raise shouldn't matter to RDM's dps and should be near BLM, Now I could be wrong about that but you were pretty vague with your point, I don't know what you expected me to think when the meme was complaining that RDM doing less dps then blm by a lot, Not like I said RDM should be buffed by a bit (Spoiler alert I did say it should be buffed a bit), So maybe you can see why I came to that conclusion.

Raising is the most powerful utility in the game bar none, Having the mobility of range dps doesn't even compare to it.

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Originally Posted by Avenheit

Fight designs are also not designed with 2minute burst in mind.

further reasoning to why 2minute burst rotations were a bad design idea

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Square makes 2 min burst windows the new meta
Makes every fight drift 2 min raid buff windows
hmm

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Originally Posted by Naizakane

RDM has a raid buff, constant access to an instant cast raise, and a button that both mitigates incoming raidwides and boosts healing. Its damage is fine when what the job brings to a raid is taken to account, and it should in no way be able to compete with BLM on raw damage. Stop talking.

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Yes, it should not do the same dps as a blm
No, it should not be this wide of a gap. And telling people to stop talking is childish.

Alright, I'm gonna update from what I've seen. To the very least, it does make sense to say that 2 minutes burst windows causes issues if fight design doesn't work. A direct example is P8S on the second boss. You get a 15 second window before Ego Death. This completely misaligns Summoner burst during the last phase which has a 100% damage buff.

As for other claims. I do apology but Reaper does trail behind. Reaper is one job that got nothing from the crit/DH buff.

As for BLM, like SAM and MCH they are pure firepower. They should be closer to each other while RDM, for example, should be about 3% behind.

There is one truth regarding rDPS. It scales much better over time than selfish DPS. So we should see a bigger difference early on. That being said, there's a 8% to 10% difference at the patch 6.2. This is too big.

In situations like SMN/RDM. I would say they should do similar DPS but RDM should have a slight edge because of skill ceiling. Summoner requires no brain. The issues Summoner deal are purely fight designs.