Loot Request - Another path - Criterion Dungeons

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Originally Posted by magitekLuna

same as now? ok. there be new crafted gear you can have

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I'm sorry, what?

Speaking BiS kupo , you ever just try some odd stat that normally would not be maxed? like on my Mch/bard I tried the mix/match/materia at full skill speed to see and while it was fun it did hurt dps of course but the speed made it actually much more fun kupo <3 lol

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

Oh don't me wrong. In these savage dungeons busters should kill a tank if they don't mit it correctly, have bosses and mobs do back to back raid wides and if there isn't a reprisal up on top of shields/substantial heals done between raid wides your group wipes, put a hard enrage cast on boss early enough that forces players to play optimally as if you were doing a savage fight with just over min-iLvl gear; similarly add damage downs instead of vulns to ensure you have to DPS properly while contending with mechanics. Make this hard as nails and if people go in with suboptimal play they don't get to clear.

Just don't tie gear to it, or atleast offer it as a stop gap to fill in pieces as you get your savage raid gear. Not be a total replacement to savage raid gear. The gear shouldn't be what defines it as high end content, it should be the mechanics and the expectations the player needs to meet.

I better see some sick dye-able glams for Savage only tho.

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I'm a bit confused.

It sounds like you're saying "I want these to be harder than Savage raids...but offer less rewards than Savage raids".

I'm not clear on how that makes sense.

What part of doing - if it IS on par with Savage raid content - your end-game with 4 people vs 8 means you should get lesser rewards?

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Originally Posted by Doc_Seraph

Speaking BiS kupo , you ever just try some odd stat that normally would not be maxed? like on my Mch/bard I tried the mix/match/materia at full skill speed to see and while it was fun it did hurt dps of course but the speed made it actually much more fun kupo <3 lol

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Healers don't really have a lot of options when it comes to melding. People max piety, some max determination, others CH and DH and some SpS. SpS AST was BiS iirc when this savage tier was released. I stick with what's useful for my job though I would have liked to try 2.3 recast time for Sage.

Piety is a stat that needs to be removed IMO. It is useless even during prog week 1. Inevitably going to end into enrage p3s/p4s if someone dies. So I had CH maxed and DH pentamelded instead.

Ease of completion. Unless they are going to construct bosses and mechanics that will be 9-11 minutes PER boss, then fundamentally it is easier given you will need to play optimally for a short period of time within 1-2 minutes. The burden of difficulty partially in savage is that you must do the "dance" while continuing to hit your buttons for a significant time. I doubt that they will have 3 9 minute fights for people to do in a dungeon given dungeons are meant to be more fluid in terms of design.

It should be just below savage tier so people do it as a means to gear up alternatively before raiding. Nobody will do it if its just for achievements.

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Originally Posted by Akiudo

to be fair, the problem in wow isn't that you can get bis in m+ dungeons but that the game is designed so you will never truly reach BiS so there will quite literally allways be upgrades, especially as m+ sometimes has quite gimicky (and op) items. gearing in FF is a lot more straightforward, so even at worst it wouldn't be nearly as big of a deal as it is in wow.

another thing to consider is that they come out during 6.25, at this point the groups that would absolutely require you to run these dungeons will allready have completed the raidtier, whereas depending on their difficulty level a group that is struggling heavily during the regular raid may not even be able to complete them (i doubt that, but it's a possibility). but even if they end up somewhere on the realm of "harder than dungeons, but really anyone that truly puts in a bit of effort can do them", at 6.3 you will again be able to get max itemlevel gear by running alliance raid and grinding tomestomes anyways, so i don't see the issue with offering max ilvl gear for putting doing actual hard content after the halfway point between raid release and catch up mechanic release.

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If that's the case, then why not push savage dungeons to 6.3 then when the tier is over? Again, I'd be fine if it provided gear 5 lvls below savage raid gear to maintain some of savage's difficulty. Even before acquiring BIS or getting to that 5 ilvls before max ilvl, DPS and healing requirements become trivial looking at it from a numbers game, leaving the variance in your chance to clear by skill. However, more gear allows for more sloppy and lenient play given you can play safer by losing uptime to guarantee resolving mechanics.

I just think that savage raid's difficulty (or at least the last 2 bosses) should be maintained to a degree within the patch it was released. One compromise however I'd think I would really like though is it providing max ilvl accessories (but not left side gear slots) and maybe a weapon equivalent to the unaugmented tombstone weapon. Provides a good stepping stone into getting your first few savage fights down by getting you some pieces of gear right off the bat while also training you for better play, but still maintains the difficulty of Savage raids.

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Originally Posted by Yeastyloins

If that's the case, then why not push savage dungeons to 6.3 then when the tier is over? Again, I'd be fine if it provided gear 5 lvls below savage raid gear to maintain some of savage's difficulty. Even before acquiring BIS or getting to that 5 ilvls before max ilvl, DPS and healing requirements become trivial looking at it from a numbers game, leaving the variance in your chance to clear by skill. However, more gear allows for more sloppy and lenient play given you can play safer by losing uptime to guarantee resolving mechanics.

I just think that savage raid's difficulty (or at least the last 2 bosses) should be maintained to a degree within the patch it was released. One compromise however I'd think I would really like though is it providing max ilvl accessories (but not left side gear slots) and maybe a weapon equivalent to the unaugmented tombstone weapon. Provides a good stepping stone into getting your first few savage fights down by getting you some pieces of gear right off the bat while also training you for better play, but still maintains the difficulty of Savage raids.

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It's already midway to 6.3, it will be released in 6.25 so savage raids will have started way before savage dungeon... What would be cool, is if it could give gear equivalent to tomestones with different stats and the same system of upgrade so we could have a new source of max ilvl gear. You would still need to do savage raids to upgrade savage dungeon gear, and we will have variety in max ilvl gear.
And that way, it could act as a catch up mechs for people who have bad luck on raid loot.

Probably just dont put gear as drops. There are several other things to put in there: mounts, minions, glam, emotes, crafting materials. You can have rewarding content but you have to continue to innovate that content and update it. I agree with others thoughts of adding accessories at the most for gear but main body pieces should only be from Savage only.

What if it just straight up dropped Tome gear on a once a week lockout or such?

You still need Savage to upgrade it to 630. But it would be a great way to gear alts without being brick-walled by the 450 tome cap. Worth running for without handing you BiS on a plate.