Dalamud impact / Odin.

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Considered it. But what if Ultima Weapon isn't in Dalamud and instead rises somewhere in Eorzea to protect the land from a threat (FFVII) or is even the Allagan's answer to Odin, what better to face off against a foe who becomes stronger in defeat than an Ultima Weapon. Midgardsormr was known as the Guardian of Silvertear Falls, what if it was a weapon as well?

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I'm playing with the idea of "Ultima Weapon" here being the end result of, say, transformation from Judge Wannabe into the leader of Odin's Beast Tribe. Doesn't he look a bit Garlean?

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Originally Posted by faris

Keep putting thought into this, your thoughts are awesome!

Oh my word though. Oh my, oh my, oh my. It's so FFXI (in a good way!) for Odin to be trolling Eorzea the same as he trolled Vana'diel.

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I know, right? I kind of love the idea of Odin as a long game antagonist in this game, given that he was on our side, for certain twisted values of 'side', in FFXI. :D

I'm trying to find sauce on Odin as a wandering Primal who gets stronger every time he's defeated; I -distinctly- recall hearing the current dev team mentioning this but I can't find a reference for the life of me.

OH YEAH maybe you can answer this one for me: Where in-text is it confirmed that the Keeper of the Lake's proper name is Midgardsormr? I feel really silly asking this but I somehow haven't stumbled upon that bit of text and it's driving me crazy.

I wish there were a Lore forum! I know they're planning on adding one but it can't come soon enough. :D

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Originally Posted by faris

I'm thinking exactly what you're thinking with Dalamud. Also, it's so Final Fantasy for ancients being way smarter than us present-day idiots, and we screw it all up somehow. Yoshi-P wanted a "Final Fantasy feel", so perhaps it's coming in form of that trope.

That's a possibility too, with the gigas! But I'm thinking more of the Vans. What if they're already partially twisted, and the actual impact will make them worse? Or make all of the Empire's soldiers like them? That thought would be terrifying.

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Yeah exactly, like someone said in another thread, math wise its been about 4500+ years since the Allagans were alive. That is a lot of time for stories to be forgotten. People who weren't apart of the Allagan empire would probably just assume it was another moon.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

Well, in FFXI, the Knights of Odin were all, strictly speaking and playing the long game, on the side of Vana'diel; that was the central plot twist of three out of four expansions. I'm not -quite- ready to say that van Darnus actually is right when he says he's bringing about the apocalypse for our own good, but...

I'm not sure it's Odin- although now that I've seen your theorising I'm /nearly/ sure- but I think it's a safe bet that Dalamud is a prison.

More (admittedly circumstantial) evidence towards the existence of technology for imprisoning Primals - in the opening movie, the Garlean airship which the Guardian of the Lake destroys explodes in a huge aetheric surge; several Primals including Ifrit recognisably launch themselves out of said aetheric surge, implying to me that prior to that moment 20-odd years ago, the Primals of Eorzea were still imprisoned - perhaps within Allagan technology that the Empire had taken control of.

Here's a spitball - Odin manipulated someone into attempting to use ancient Allagan tech to vacuum up the Keeper of the Lake into the airship, knowing that the Keeper would bring the airship down and go down with it, releasing Primals trapped within the ship. Then, 20 years later, Odin manipulates von Darnus into another attack on Eorzea, this time utilising Dalamud, bringing it close enough that he'll be able to escape back into Eorzea!

I've put far too much thought into this :D

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To me watching the CS, the Primals aren't released until the crashing into Silvertear Lake. Maybe the Primals were inside of the Crystal Tower asleep and the crash interrupted the aether flow of the area, woke them up, and they were free.

I'm definitely for the idea that Odin is manipulating the Vans, same way Nidhogg manipulated the Dragoon guy. The armor is just so eerily similar.

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

OH YEAH maybe you can answer this one for me: Where in-text is it confirmed that the Keeper of the Lake's proper name is Midgardsormr? I feel really silly asking this but I somehow haven't stumbled upon that bit of text and it's driving me crazy.

I wish there were a Lore forum! I know they're planning on adding one but it can't come soon enough. :D

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A NPC in Ul'Dah? tells you. But also: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Midgardsormr

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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier

Yeah exactly, like someone said in another thread, math wise its been about 4500+ years since the Allagans were alive. That is a lot of time for stories to be forgotten. People who weren't apart of the Allagan empire would probably just assume it was another moon.

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And I can't forget a certain quote from van raven (my new nickname for him.) At Ifrit's defeat, he said something like the old emperors of Allagan would turn in their graves if they knew of the present day folk's ignorance regarding the primals. If they knew of what the Primals were doing, it's so likely that they constructed Dalamud to contain them.

That's not actually sauce though! Any random silly could have gone and put that on the wikia. However, I believe that it's actually ingame; I'm curious about what NPC it is, though, and in what context.

Also, what Crystal Tower? Is there actual in-game mention of the Tower or where/what it is? I know that there's an ancient burial complex in/around/under Mor Dhona, but I'm confused as to what you're talking about exactly. I'm gonna go and rewatch the opening movie, though; there might be something here I missed (and it's been a while; that thing's fun to watch.)

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Originally Posted by Teakwood

That's not actually sauce though! Any random silly could have gone and put that on the wikia. However, I believe that it's actually ingame; I'm curious about what NPC it is, though, and in what context.

Also, what Crystal Tower? Is there actual in-game mention of the Tower or where/what it is? I know that there's an ancient burial complex in/around/under Mor Dhona, but I'm confused as to what you're talking about exactly. I'm gonna go and rewatch the opening movie, though; there might be something here I missed (and it's been a while; that thing's fun to watch.)

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Its just assumed its called the Crystal Tower, the place under Mor Dhona. I think its translated as Crystal Tower or people call it that cause the way it looks in the concept art. Its been forever since I've ran around talking to npcs in each city. Funny that a few DO have useful info lol. Yeah I'm just speculating what I think and have witnessed. With the way zones are changing in 2.0 we could name countless ways Odin and others appear. Hopefully 1.23 and the Twelve Mythos will shed light on whats really happening and whats going to happen to us, more storyline.

NPC mentioning Midgarsormir as the Dragon of the Lake AND the mentioning of the Crystal Tower underneath Mor Dhona are both in the Monk job quest, a scholar that's part of it.

Also, I don't remember whether it's in a Main Quest or Flame Quest, but at a point you need to retrieve a letter sent by an Ala'Mighan that has been forcibly conscripted into Garlean forces and has been acting as a spy. According to the letter, the Garleans are quite literally getting more and more insane as a whole by the moment (or at least according to the way they treat their own troops, to become like monsters), and even he himself was feeling he was loosing his grip on reality.

Well, yes, sic semper theōriīs. You lob enough plot guesses, eventually some of them might stick, if you're lucky. :D I had the distinct feeling that the beast tribes' summoning of the Primals was a relatively recent development, though, which made me think that perhaps they'd been sealed away in a device of Allagan construction for a very long time. My textual support for this is really shaky, though.

It's a good feeling when you make a wild plot guess and wind up being right - I figured out what Odin's deal was, more or less, at the Snoll Tzar fight of CoP before ToAU had even been announced. Not his /whole/ deal, mind you, but that he had escaped from his shattered Protocrystal and therefore had probably thrown in his lot with Vana'diel, thus explaining the source of the Kindred and the Shadow Lord's power, and the "him" that the Zilart Princes were referring to in the Norg cutscene. I'm trying to one-up myself in XIV. ;)

Edit: Skies you magnificent cat. I had a -feeling- that might be it. I guess I ought to get back to my PGL levels...

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Originally Posted by Skies

Also, I don't remember whether it's in a Main Quest or Flame Quest, but at a point you need to retrieve a letter sent by an Ala'Mighan that has been forcibly conscripted into Garlean forces and has been acting as a spy. According to the letter, the Garleans are quite literally getting more and more insane as a whole by the moment (or at least according to the way they treat their own troops, to become like monsters), and even he himself was feeling he was loosing his grip on reality.

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Is it just me, or are they getting more and more batshit the closer Dalamud is getting? I mean, I understand freaking out at a gigantic thing coming to crush us, but it's theirs. They shouldn't be worried at all. Unless! Odin really is manipulating the Vans (the same way Garuda and Ifrit are manipulating The Ixali and the Ama'jaa respectively) and the closer the moon gets, the closer his hold gets...