Duty Support needs some work

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Originally Posted by Izar_Chillen

Not only that , they had to make one of the DPS npc a Thaumaturge , and one that does the worst rotation it could possibly do.

All it casts is fire 1 , then pauses for a moment, then blizzard 1 , pauses , maybe a thunder 1/2 , pauses, repeat - its so bad it may as well not be in there it does such slow and weak damage . Why did they have to make it a THM. Why cant we choose the team make up? Give us a choice SQE, let us have a ninja , or bard . something better.

Its so painful to experience the horrendous damage they do I cant be bothered with Trust AI . The only upgrade any of the AI got is now the tank will charge in even at low levels with that level 62 ability and land overpower better than the squadron counter part that still thinks its got a cone overpower. The CNJ is a bit better at being quick to heal and isnt a dipshit that tries to run away or do nothing once battle commence unlike squadrons where they derp for 3-6 seconds doing nothing whilst you attack the enemies.

Ill happily afk/alt-tab and wait for queues as a dps if I have an MSQ dungeons to do.

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Choosing your team would make no difference. The THM isn't even doing actual THM spells. Thunder isn't actually applying any DoT, and there's no MP to manage so no Astral/Umbral balancing.

What you are witnessing is that the NPCs are designed to scale damage based on yours. If you're going all out with your rotation, the NPCs will be doing single-digit damage. If you just press a random attack every few seconds, or even if you go afk, their damage spikes up considerably.

Because, by design, Trusts and Duty Support is entirely intended to take a set minimum amount of time, with some variation depending on how you use them, as demonstrated with big pulls but needing to know the AI to reduce the risk.

This is why you will never be able to use them to "just fill in" when you want to run with a friend or whatever. They are designed to scale damage to a single player to ensure the duty is completed at a certain rate. Adding in even one more player makes it impossible to scale further, and wildly unbalances the intended design.

This is also why Squadrons are better, for having more fixed damage, that you can even tune higher with Orders they learn along the way. Squads go brrrrr if you got 'em set up proper.



Completely unrelated, I managed to get a healer NPC killed in Stone Vigil as I was trying things out, and was quite surprised to see the tank NPC pull out a Phoenix Down to get them back up after we cleared out the mobs. Good show, preparing for that niche situation. On that front, they are better than Squadrons, which won't do anything to help a dead healer. Better be carrying some Company Tonics for that situation.

At least the conjurer does DPS unlike most healers in dungeon :)

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

It's better than the Squadron System, which the Duty Support/Trust systems are based on.

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I still prefer Squadron because if you become the healer, you don't need to heal the tank but instead just spam dpsing, also the archer gives Refresh as well :)

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Originally Posted by AngelCheese77

I tanked with Trust and neither Alphy or Urianger could keep me alive with 2 packs and using defensive abilities. Hm. Even with lelev gear. Maybe I’m missing something

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Depending where you are in the MSQ you will get access to a White Mage Healer (The All Rounder). He's the best one for pulling out the 'oh sheeeeet!' big heals needed for multi-pulls and has the clutch Benediction too.

Second point is pretty moot. We've said it before but Trusts/Duty Support are supposed to be kind of bad so that they don't match real players.

My only complaint towards that will always be about how the damage down by them scales constantly. It's annoying to tryhard hoping for a significant increase in times when the trust is just going to scale their damages back so that it's only a slight gain on mob pulls and it's actually a loss on bosses unless you go at a certain pace(have all Trusts up to level 90 for the record). It'd feel a bit better if they just let their damage stay linear. If you end up outspeeding real parties(which you shouldn't be outspeeding any decent party but whatever), then it's fine.

It's honestly not that bad though. ARR/HW dungeons are around 10 minutes worth of time with regular people, with SB pushing to around 14ish minutes average until you get to dungeons like Castrum Abania, Ala Mhigo, Skalla(and I think some of the optional dungeons like Hells' Lid do this too) where you sometimes end up waiting for mobs to show up instead of being able to just aoe them all down. Trusts are only like 5ish minutes onto all of these usually.

ShB/EW dungeons trusts are like 5-10 minutes more, depending on party comp though. If you're not a tanking as WAR/PLD then you need a certain person as healer for bigger pulls. Think you get the best times with that healer while playing DPS though since you can burn the mobs down the fastest.

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Originally Posted by WindyGamer

So, quick count - it's 6 to 2 against making any changes to the Duty Support system? Ok No changes then. Guess I'm done posting today anyway.

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You're sounding really butthurt that not everyone agrees with you :p

I will say I do think we should be able to switch the dps for the lower level trusts if we play the second dps. I tend to prefer having a melee or a ranged non mage with me if I'm a mage and vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Choosing your team would make no difference.

What you are witnessing is that the NPCs are designed to scale damage based on yours.

Because, by design, Trusts and Duty Support is entirely intended to take a set minimum amount of time, with some variation depending on how you use them, as demonstrated with big pulls but needing to know the AI to reduce the risk.

This is why you will never be able to use them to "just fill in" when you want to run with a friend or whatever. They are designed to scale damage to a single player to ensure the duty is completed at a certain rate. Adding in even one more player makes it impossible to scale further, and wildly unbalances the intended design.

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So, they are not really playing the game. They are cheating. Ok. I get it now.

You know, NPCs "really playing the game" has been a thing for a long time. I recall an "un named here" game that did this quite well and has had a second version where they left that feature out completely. Near the end of popularity of that game they added For purchase means to add trainable NPCs to your party. That game is still up and running for free if you'd like to try it. You know, in your down time when you as Y 'P says, occasionally get bored with FF.

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Originally Posted by Wolwosh

You're sounding really butthurt that not everyone agrees with you :p

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Nope. I just like to take count of how many folks want HASH TAG NO CHANGES... ;)

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

It's intended to allow solo support but SE does not want it to be better than playing with real people.

The difference between Duty Support and Trusts is that you can level trusts, so that you can do the dungeons "above minimum item level" as you described it.

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Only in terms of time efficiency. When you can pretty much afk-level using both thanks to how rubber-banded their output is... It's pretty much better than leveling with players.

Been wanting coop trusts since... Well they became a thing!

And I still wish for the same with the support!

Pretty please, no more random :3