The absolute state of Frontlines

Now we're all more educated! Huzaah

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Originally Posted by Asuka-Hykiri

Oh sorry, my mistake, it isn't during battle high...

ITS ALL THE TIME

so yeah, 28,800 is still correct

With Battle High 5, thats still 54000 x 0.8 to give 43,200 dmg of the 49,500 HP

With a follow up drill for 10,000 x 0.8 to give 8,000 dmg of their remaining HP

So yeah, the origional comment about a BH5 MCH being able to 2 shot a SMN still isn't wrong

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Couple of things:

-The point about the DR being native to the gamemode rather than a buff/debuff has already been discussed, which means you failed to read the entire discussion leading up to this point

-The 'original comment' mentioned MCH's Snipe (LB) 'instagibbing' with BH4/BH5. The definition of instagib is this: (video games, transitive) To immediately gib (with no damage beforehand necessary).

-The point I've argued, which again, you've clearly failed to read, is that the native DR in Frontline makes it impossible to instagib anyone with just a snipe, since that damage will never break 44k, which is a bit short of the 49.5k required to kill

I've been trying to explain this for close to two pages now, if you still don't understand what I was trying to argue against, or on what I'm basing my arguments off of, then I'm sorry to say I don't care, I'm pretty bored of trying to get this point across.

have not been near their sence the start of endwalkers.

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Originally Posted by Gserpent

It's not like CC spamming wasn't a thing in the old system. It was a common way to die if you were being dumb and overextending or not paying attention to enemy positioning.

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Sure, there was CC spamming, and purify wasn't a global skill. But there were the autoimmune and actual healers. If pre 6.1 was 6/10 cc spam, right now it's 8/10 cc spam (if that makes sense lol). You literally couldn't be stunlockd for more than 1 stun, which imo is how it should be.
But, I agree, it's not THAT much of a difference, IF purify actually works as intended, and not at the mercy of server ticks. SE needs to either take a hard look at purify, or redesign the entire "cc system".

There are other factors SE introduced in 6.1 involved, it is not just CC.
There is new category I called animation lock.
Let me be more specify.
Any CC can be remove by Purify is traditional CC
There is another school SE introduced is put your target into animation lock and target's action bar will be disabled or can not be remove by Purify:
Phantom Rush
Meteor Drive
Miracle Nature
Contradance
There are many more but I yet to discover during my solo in Frontline.
Overall, you can't touch CC because there are two schools.
The best thing is to apply 5.0 version of countermeasure to bring down Ranges to even with Meeles

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Originally Posted by Guesswhat

Sure, there was CC spamming, and purify wasn't a global skill. But there were the autoimmune and actual healers. If pre 6.1 was 6/10 cc spam, right now it's 8/10 cc spam (if that makes sense lol). You literally couldn't be stunlockd for more than 1 stun, which imo is how it should be.
But, I agree, it's not THAT much of a difference, IF purify actually works as intended, and not at the mercy of server ticks. SE needs to either take a hard look at purify, or redesign the entire "cc system".

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Not to mention healers had Rescue which could save a melee's life.

I've had numerous situations where I've been CC'd for well over 6s at a time thanks to repeated stuns, before the PvP patch I would have only been stunned for 2 before gaining immunity for 10s, there is no shot you played earlier Frontlines and think the CC is comparable between then and now, even purify isn't that helpful considering how many skills can bypass it as mentioned in Divinemights post. Honestly I'm not sure what they can do to make FL not a cc fest without making it so melee can go in and out without any form of punishment. I feel like in 5.x melee could dive with minimal risk, but now it feels like the exact opposite where even if you get a perfect purify off you still get shafted by a WHM's polymorph that is basically a death sentence. And it's not like you can avoid it since every alliance has multiple WHMs in every single match.

Also this thread really got derailed considering I just wanted to put up a meme video kek.

SMN is garbage outside LB, and for whatever reason Square decided thats all they need in frontlines. That and dragoon bursts. Maybe making pvp about just bursting and not engaging with your entire skillset constantly is a pretty bad and shoddy design. I would legit take the old system again

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Originally Posted by Naphtha

Not to mention healers had Rescue which could save a melee's life.

I've had numerous situations where I've been CC'd for well over 6s at a time thanks to repeated stuns, before the PvP patch I would have only been stunned for 2 before gaining immunity for 10s, there is no shot you played earlier Frontlines and think the CC is comparable between then and now, even purify isn't that helpful considering how many skills can bypass it as mentioned in Divinemights post. Honestly I'm not sure what they can do to make FL not a cc fest without making it so melee can go in and out without any form of punishment. I feel like in 5.x melee could dive with minimal risk, but now it feels like the exact opposite where even if you get a perfect purify off you still get shafted by a WHM's polymorph that is basically a death sentence. And it's not like you can avoid it since every alliance has multiple WHMs in every single match.

Also this thread really got derailed considering I just wanted to put up a meme video kek.

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The old system didn't give you CC immunity, just to that type. You absolutely got chain CC'd in the old system, immunity be damned. Stun immunity won't protect you from the 3 sec silence following it or the 2 sec bind after that. At least now you have guard - and you should be *immediately* guarding if you get hit with any sort of soft CC since you are almost certainly not going to avoid the incoming hard CC's.

And yes, melee could dive without risk in 5.x because *melee were overpowered.* They had too much global DR, hence the old system being "everyone plays DRG if they want to win."

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

SMN is garbage outside LB, and for whatever reason Square decided thats all they need in frontlines. That and dragoon bursts. Maybe making pvp about just bursting and not engaging with your entire skillset constantly is a pretty bad and shoddy design. I would legit take the old system again

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I would really like pre-5.0 PvP back, at least for FL, I enjoyed late 4.x's PvP, though I didn't really get into Feast at that time, so I can't tell if it was good or not.

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Originally Posted by Droxybrobotnik

SMN is garbage outside LB, and for whatever reason Square decided thats all they need in frontlines. That and dragoon bursts. Maybe making pvp about just bursting and not engaging with your entire skillset constantly is a pretty bad and shoddy design. I would legit take the old system again

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Don’t over exaggerates.
In 6.1 PvP, most of jobs core damage is from LB, SMN is not unique
Most jobs rely on CC chain lock for execution kill