Action condensing options

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Originally Posted by Scruit_Bigtime

here i as hoping this was a post asking AST play/draw and play minor/draw minor arcana to be combined

which i'd welcome.

removing the 1-2-3 combos will just lead to people saying "game boring all i do is spam 1 over and over"
if pressing 3 buttons in sequence is hard... i dont know what to say

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This! I'd love to be able to save 2 keybinds reserved for Play and Crown Play!

Since there's no gameplay reason to not play a card you're holding (and if you really want to, you can use undraw), I'd love to see these streamlined.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

Also this game is already "Roll my face and get rewards". That's the entire loop. Just because this community ends up being atrociously bad at basic tasks doesn't mean said task is hard.

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Clear the savage fights and then make that statement.

If it is 100% optional, is guaranteed to not give an advantage or disadvantage and turned off by default, I don't see how more options hurt anyone.
However, I do have less trust in the programming. For example, many Fighting Games that added block or dash buttons (which is usually done with the D-Pad or equivalent) had those not using these play sub-optimal due to suddenly possible option selects caused by unprecise programming. So unless 100% parity is guaranteed, I'd rather we not take the risk. But assuming it could be achieved, nothing wrong with options.

As for how I personally feel about it: In dungeons and other content that doesn't require me to have a brain to begin with, I'd rather have a more involved rotation cause it is the only thing preventing you from falling asleep right then and there. Meanwhile, in high-end content, being able to minutely manipulate your rotation is usually what optimisation ends up being all about. So I would hate having my abilities condensed, which is why it would be so important to give parity and make it optional only.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Then, is that a meaningful fail condition worth forcing anyone and everyone to spend almost a fifth of DRG's native toolkit buttons on?
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7 buttons, a fifth of a job kit, spent to make sure there's extra punishment if one doesn't follow the lit-up abilities. Is that good design?

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To use DRG as an example since it was brought up: Sure, it has some of the longest combos in the game, but that actually gives it the ability to pull some neat optimisation in non-faceroll content. For example, one of the two common TEA openers would abort its combo after a few GCDs in order to be able to place a DoT on the Liquid Hand the moment it appeared. To optimise damage before that, a DRG would do the first half of its DoT combo and then the first half of its non-DoT combo.
All of this kind of makes me wonder whether removing direct access to those buttons altogether, even if optional, would be a good idea, since in that situation people playing with condensed combos would actually be at a disadvantage. The devs would have to come up with some smart system to prevent that from happening.

On a side note, sure, DRG has long combos, but it's not like it suffers from button bloat so I don't think they should tackle that one first.
My setup has multiple Dragon Sight buttons, multiple potion buttons, LB, separate buttons for High Jump and Mirage Dive cause I don't use the new condensation of those, and bring two True Thrusts to separate my combos more neatly and I still have enough empty spaces on my hotbar to cleanly separate different areas on it.
Meanwhile, on AST even with just role actions, LB and a single ress button I have 3 space left, with not potions anywhere in sight. Though I suppose AST doesn't have any combos that could be condensed, other than perhaps draw buttons being rolled into one...

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Clear the savage fights and then make that statement.

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Ah, the legendary "Go play [X]".

That is always a salient point to make. Why even bother having the boards? Unless we meet your backwards and arrogant expectation, you're not allowed to have an opinion. Get off your high horse, you intellectual deficit. We both know Savages have been consistently poorer and poorer with how loud your lot cries it out. And it's not like basic pattern recognition is some monstrous task.

I beat Malenia in Elden Ring, so I'm going to say that compensates for the "difficulty" of "move slightly to the left and 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3" and call you a brainlet. Easy come, easy goes.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

Because some of us have more brain capacity to realize that the difference between 1-2-3 and 1-1-1 is skin deep when all the abilities do roughly the same exact thing with the main difference being "Is it AoE or ST?".

If they won't bother making interesting kits, at least stop pretending it's interesting by making it more buttons. I still don't understand why Kaiten had to die for "button bloat" when Ikushoten and Ogi Namikiri have no business being different buttons. This is all flash and no substance and the flash is getting boring. (That's a lie. I know exactly why. So we can focus ever harder on 1-2-3).

Also this game is already "Roll my face and get rewards". That's the entire loop. Just because this community ends up being atrociously bad at basic tasks doesn't mean said task is hard.

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I agree with the majority of what you said, I just dont think condensing 123s to 111 is a good idea. Yes its skin deep and superficial, but 111 is even moreso. You only have to look at the healer forums to see the response to that

I'm ok with it being optional as long as folks who request it don't go further and go "since we have free slot on hotbar now give us more actions to press" then screw some players like me who like the feel of 1-2-3 pressing.

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Originally Posted by LunaChild

I'm ok with it being optional as long as folks who request it don't go further and go "since we have free slot on hotbar now give us more actions to press" then screw some players like me who like the feel of 1-2-3 pressing.

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This can not be stressed enough! Offering the option to condense them has to be the end point, with the non-condensed version still being the basis for every job's gamedesign.

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Originally Posted by Lustre

I agree with the majority of what you said, I just dont think condensing 123s to 111 is a good idea. Yes its skin deep and superficial, but 111 is even moreso. You only have to look at the healer forums to see the response to that

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I don't think healers want 1-2-3 either, is the thing. They simply want more to do in general. In fact, it's likely this problem won't be solved with a 1-2-3 combo either because they'd still be in the situation of pressing Glare, but in more steps. More situational buttons or buttons with more impact is usually what's desired as opposed to mountains of oGCDs that do the same thing. The 1-1-1 of healers is more the method of the problem, but not the root of it.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

Because some of us have more brain capacity to realize that the difference between 1-2-3 and 1-1-1 is skin deep when all the abilities do roughly the same exact thing with the main difference being "Is it AoE or ST?".

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Is it, though? It's an additional layer of execution, that while simple, has been a fundamental part of the 'feel' of this game for a long time. You could argue most mechanics in games are arbitrary.

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Originally Posted by BrokentoothMarch

Ah, the legendary "Go play [X]".

That is always a salient point to make. Why even bother having the boards? Unless we meet your backwards and arrogant expectation, you're not allowed to have an opinion. Get off your high horse, you intellectual deficit. We both know Savages have been consistently poorer and poorer with how loud your lot cries it out. And it's not like basic pattern recognition is some monstrous task.

I beat Malenia in Elden Ring, so I'm going to say that compensates for the "difficulty" of "move slightly to the left and 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3" and call you a brainlet. Easy come, easy goes.

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"Roll my face and get rewards" was your comment. Saying that while completely ignoring the end game content completely invalidates any and all opinions you have.