Is the WoL actually good though?

From my tumblr account, written back in 2017:

"On my first trip to Gridania, I shared a coach with a lovely man with the palest green eyes I’ve ever seen.

As we talked, he asked me “What was it that first attracted you to the life of an adventurer?”. I did not know how to respond. The typical answers of “Fame, Fortune, Power” do not ring true for me.

It is desire, I think, to grant aid to those who cannot afford it; to protect those without power to protect themselves; to acknowledge every life in a world where fame so often overshadows all else.

Bremondt seemed to understand the silence. As we said farewells upon our arrival, he gave me a ring, and he said to me “Become the sort of storied personage I can brag about havin’ met …”

Years later, I met him again on another coach while fleeing for my life, a savior with pale green eyes.

I still have the ring, after all of these years. And I do my best each day to be that person he saw I could become.

Dal S'ta, Memorii"

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

The thing with the WoL is i feel there’s plenty of times where fighting isn’t necessary and they still choose to. In a way it makes them seem a bit similar to Zenos in the end and i believe this is even reflected upon by him. It’s almost as if we choose to fight fight fight instead of possibly talking things out. Obviously it’s an mmo so we can’t really have any agency whatsoever(even though other mmos do it but i digress) but it still rubs me off the wrong way. I mean…now with reaper we’re basically consuming peoples souls lol. And i guess that’s just okay.

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I can't remember a time where WoL purposefully picked a fight without even trying to parley or negotiate in the MSQ aside from dealing with people like Zenos or Valens, vengeful primals like the Warring Triad, or beasts like Bismarck or the Lightwardens, who won't respond with anything else. Heck, in Ronka the heroes try to call a truce to get out of a death trap, only for Ran'jit to go straight for murder.

WoL doesn't go on mass killing sprees to satisfy their Avatar either. They kill enough beasties, wanted bandits, and people trying to kill them first anyways.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

At the start of ARR you were just an ordinary adventurer so those answers make complete sense.

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I think part of something Ardbert said really sums it up, and very much applies to 'our' WoL:

"We were just adventurers trying to make our way. An odd job here, a favor there ─ we never aspired to be Warriors of Light.

But word of our deeds spread, and soon people were calling us heroes. They placed their hopes and dreams on our shoulders and bid us fight for all that was good and right"

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

I can't remember a time where WoL purposefully picked a fight without even trying to parley or negotiate in the MSQ aside from dealing with people like Zenos or Valens, vengeful primals like the Warring Triad, or beasts like Bismarck or the Lightwardens, who won't respond with anything else. Heck, in Ronka the heroes try to call a truce to get out of a death trap, only for Ran'jit to go straight for murder.

WoL doesn't go on mass killing sprees to satisfy their Avatar either. They kill enough beasties, wanted bandits, and people trying to kill them first anyways.

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Yeah, the WoL never goes spoiling for a fight when one isn't necessary. It's just that most of the time a fight breaks out, because at the end of the day the central gameplay of FFXIV is based around combat so that's usually how the quest design breaks up the walls of text.

The line of thought that the WoL is by nature violent and looking for a fight falls apart with how many times things don't fall to violence even when conflict is happening. Crafting has a lot of perfect examples: there are SO MANY crafting quests where you end up at odds with people who could quite easily be shut up with a swift punch, and in most cases they definitely deserve it on a karmic level, but no violence ever breaks out. Almost like, no, the WoL does not go into situations where fighting isn't necessary and still chooses to; if they have another option, they will take it. And sometimes, that other option is 'fishing' and the WoL happens to have a rod in hand. Scholasticate story's also got some great examples, where nary a weapon is drawn and the WoL still winds up helping.

In fact, probably the best MSQ example of this is 2.55. There's actually a lot of people who chose violence that day, and the WoL was not one of them (much to the chagrin of certain players). Which is a good thing, because that day went pretty badly for everyone who did choose violence. I feel like, if the WoL was shooting for a fight to the degree that Kizuya describes, they probably wouldn't have made it to Heavensward alive and un-assassinated-for-regicide.

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Originally Posted by Dikatis

I can't remember a time where WoL purposefully picked a fight without even trying to parley or negotiate in the MSQ aside from dealing with people like Zenos or Valens, vengeful primals like the Warring Triad, or beasts like Bismarck or the Lightwardens, who won't respond with anything else. Heck, in Ronka the heroes try to call a truce to get out of a death trap, only for Ran'jit to go straight for murder.

WoL doesn't go on mass killing sprees to satisfy their Avatar either. They kill enough beasties, wanted bandits, and people trying to kill them first anyways.

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Just one example i can think of is Elidibus in 5.3. We have the memory crystals to help restore his memory and we don’t even attempt to give it to him. Instead our only 2 dialogue options are telling him his people are dead and he needs to get over it(which is a bit ironic considering the final zone of EW….) Again, diadem pretty clearly states it’s due to us one of the animal species almost went extinct. Or in the drk quests, you have a nobleman who you goad into attacking you with his bodyguards so you can kill him, and the journal entry afterwards comments on his blood etc, and then you let a woman who attempted murder go free.

I feel anything Diadem related isn't meant to be taken seriously and to be seen as a tongue and cheek type of thing from the devs. In a meta way of oh look this is what the 4th or 5th time we've redone this zone joke as to explain why there are no more dinosaurs and the like roaming around.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Just one example i can think of is Elidibus in 5.3. We have the memory crystals to help restore his memory and we don’t even attempt to give it to him. Instead our only 2 dialogue options are telling him his people are dead and he needs to get over it(which is a bit ironic considering the final zone of EW….) Again, diadem pretty clearly states it’s due to us one of the animal species almost went extinct. Or in the drk quests, you have a nobleman who you goad into attacking you with his bodyguards so you can kill him, and the journal entry afterwards comments on his blood etc, and then you let a woman who attempted murder go free.

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The Scions had tried REPEATEDLY to solve this diplomatically with him before this. From confronting him in Rak'tika to when he kidnapped Y'shtola in Amaurot. Then he sent an army of Warriors of Light to murder us across every single locale in Norvandt while showing complete and utter apathy to the damage he knows he's doing to G'raha Tia. In doing so, Elidibus had openly declared war on the Scions and was doing everything in his power to kill them. He is the one who broke negotiations down, not WoL. Trying to reopen negotiations by walking over to hand over the memory crystals would have just reminded Elidibus of what he was fighting for and made him more determined to kill WoL, since he was clearly out for revenge against the heroes for killing Emet-Selch and getting Lahabrea killed by Thordan. WoL and the Scions were acting purely in self-defense and walking over to hand him the memory crystals is just begging to get an axe driven through them.

It speaks a lot more to WoL's compassion that they're willing to protect Lowdy from an overzealous warden who was trying to torture her for her sins rather than letting her atone. As Myste (aka WoL) says, "No one is undeserving. No one is beyond redemption. This I must believe." Lowdy also doesn't actually murder anyone at the peace conference.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Or in the drk quests, you have a nobleman who you goad into attacking you with his bodyguards so you can kill him, and the journal entry afterwards comments on his blood etc, and then you let a woman who attempted murder go free.

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i don't recall that quest at all, can you remind me of the quest name? because the closest one i recall is the one where you kill some temple knights who were abusing their authority to force themselves on a young woman.

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Originally Posted by SnowVix

i don't recall that quest at all, can you remind me of the quest name? because the closest one i recall is the one where you kill some temple knights who were abusing their authority to force themselves on a young woman.

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The quest is the Level 63 quest, "The Widow and her Love". The context is that Myste drags the WoL into finding someone he can help with his simulacrums, holding WoL's aether hostage (though admittedly by accident). He settles on Lowdy, the waitress who drugged the WoL back at Aymeric's first attempt to broker a peace conference between man and dragon. Her proctor is overzealous and hellbent on torturing her, filling her every day with misery and scorn, rather than allowing her to atone and serve out her sentence as decreed by the courts. Seeing this, WoL goes up to the proctor and asks him to tone it down. The proctor, so blinded by faith and apparently oblivious to the fact that this "concerned adventurer" is the Savior of Ishgard, draws his sword, forcing WoL to defend themselves and ultimately killing the guy.

It's not, "we goaded him to fight just to have an excuse to kill him" like Kizuya said it is.

The exact exchange:

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Originally Posted by Sidurgu

Fine, fine! Do what you will! Conjure her husband! <sigh> But do not come crying to me when she curses you for your kindness...

I'll not give the hunters cause to turn their bows on us, either. Rielle, take Myste into the woods and hide. Forename and I will free the girl.

Rather, I will free the girl. She would know you at once, and might misunderstand your intentions. We cannot risk the commotion.

As for your part...no one is truly outside Halone's grace, don't you think? Confront the proctor. Make him see the error of his ways. If he is a good man, then he may yet repent of his wicked ways...

If he refuses, then that is his choice to make, and he will have to accept the consequences of his actions. Doubly so if he bears steel, yes?

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Originally Posted by Proctor

Do not play me for a fool! Your sins are beyond forgiveness! Ser Aymeric and his noble brethren may think you worthy of mercy, but I have seen your kind before. A swift death is more than you deserve!

Hm? Who are you? Why do you disturb me?

A concerned adventurer who objects to my treatment of a criminal? Hah! If only you knew her sins. She should have been thrown into Witchdrop.

Alas, the Lord Speaker in his boundless wisdom and mercy demanded that we spare the woman's life. But rest assured I will see that her every waking moment is filled with misery and scorn.

You presume to judge me!? A man of the church!? I will not be cowed by your threats! The Fury guide and protect me! The Fury guide and protect me!

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We don't know what happened to her either, but there's no indication that she had any intent of fleeing, especially when it's mentioned that her guilt was more painful to her than even the proctor's punishments and fantasies of murdering her himself. We also know that WoL has forgiven her enough to not want to hurt her despite what she did to them.

I don't think having selfish motivations for getting into a career makes you a bad person. You are only a bad person if your selfish motivations make you do bad things in pursuit of said motivations. And whose to say that we don't move to more altruistic reasonings once we become a major player in international politics. When we say we were after fame/power/money, we were a literal nobody, not the hero of eorzea.