Party changes moving forward for 8-man content

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I figured you were just talking savage since you started talking about p3s

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I only mentioned that as an example where two tanks are needed. It’s a fight where the OT actually has purpose, and I think more 8-mans could stand to be designed like that (read: where both tanks are taking damage; not just the MT). O12N, E3N and P3N are some examples if you want non-Savage content where the OT serves more purpose than “blue DPS with occasional mitigative responsibilities”. Obviously there are more, but P3S came to mind first due to it being in the recent tier.

Congrats on creating alliance raid groups! :D

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Originally Posted by Rein_eon_Osborne

What? Healer is required? What is this wonderland located at?

/s

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The circles of Hell in the world unsundered back when healers actually healed.

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Originally Posted by Ritsuka-55

Instead of 2 tanks, 2 healer and 4 dps.

Should be:

1 tank: Keeps aggro away from the party, does damage, moves the boss if needed and provides mitigation for self and party.

2 healers now changed to SUPPORTERS: provide damage buffs to party, an extra party mitigation, does damage, and 1 or 2 healing buttons for an emergency.

5 dps: do damage, some self buffs for utility.

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I really hate this.

Oh yay this sounds good for tank queues, and gets rid of all of those pesky tank mechanics tanks have to do that make them play differently to dps jobs.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

Take this idea even further considering this game current combat design.

8 Dps. There you go c:

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sad part is you joke but aside from healers having almost no DPS buttons tanks are basically DPS with a guaranteed enmity generator which we could easily go back to the old enmity system and have tanks as DPS just with acccess to more self defensive capabilities and more enmity on hit generators/skills

healers owuld prolly end up more support DPS with some emergency hela skills but mostly focusing on buffs/debuffs

all jobs would have more responsibility some better at party wide mits some better at handling solo damage etc...kinda like how MNK was a really good party wide mitigation melee DPS thanks to the bonus healing recieved he could slap on everyone

sad part is we're heading to that route but with less interesting stuff to keep us playing each role at this point. (not to mention hell even speedrunning dungeons with premades don't even take healers) you may as well just dismiss the trinity tbh if it helps us get a ltitle more life into the game so be it i really wish they wouldn't do it tbh but they aren't exactly helping themselves here

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

Strictly speaking, the healing requirements are low everywhere. In Savage, and especially outside of it. Since the OP only specified “8-man content” and not “8-man Savage content”, having 2 healers in anything non-Savage is even more redundant than having 2 in most Savage fights. A half-competent one can solo heal and maintain steady damage on their own in normal 8-mans. The second healer is basically a gimped DPS, so might as well replace them with an actual DPS.

It doesn’t take nearly as much skill as you’re implying for one healer to handle all of the healing in regular 8-man content.

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Except we're human and we eff up from time to time. And when that unfortunate time comes, it sure does help to have a second healer so we don't have to reset or sacrifice the DPS from a DPS player using SMN or RDM.

Party composition factors in that players are human, not robots who never make mistakes. And please don't trivialize content of any difficulty. Not every player has countless insufferable hours of farming high end content under their belts.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Except we're human and we eff from time to time. And when that unfortunate time comes, it sure does help to have a second healer so we don't have to reset or sacrifice the DPS from a DPS player using SMN or RDM.

Party composition factors in that players are human, not robots who never make mistakes. And please don't trivialize content of any difficulty. Not every player has countless insufferable hours of farming high end content under their belts.

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I have countless hours farming high end content and I still make mistakes in dungeons sometimes that lead to me dying.

Some people are "perfect" all the time, but most people aren't. Posts acting like healers do no healing in Savage baffle me, since only at the highest end is that possible. I wonder how some of those healers would react in more casual statics (We've had a few hardcore healers sub in occasionally, and it tends to not work out well lol)

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Originally Posted by Gemina

Except we're human and we eff up from time to time. And when that unfortunate time comes, it sure does help to have a second healer so we don't have to reset or sacrifice the DPS from a DPS player using SMN or RDM.

Party composition factors in that players are human, not robots who never make mistakes. And please don't trivialize content of any difficulty. Not every player has countless insufferable hours of farming high end content under their belts.

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i will trivialize content cause people are clearing it without healers and hell sometimes even without DPS. the only reason content is harder is not the content it's the players those are two completely different things. even you yourself said we only need two healers if SOMEBODY messes up not the content requiring it. cause it's all scripted and not hitting hard enough/frequent enough to need it

also boo hoo SMN uses their swift cast on a raise or RDM uses one of their many dualcasts on raising especially if it's during downtimes they lose one GCD to do the entire thing you brought a second whole healer for.nd guess what they 'lls till deal more damage overall even losing that one GCD compared to bringing another healer

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have countless hours farming high end content and I still make mistakes in dungeons sometimes that lead to me dying.

Some people are "perfect" all the time, but most people aren't. Posts acting like healers do no healing in Savage baffle me, since only at the highest end is that possible. I wonder how some of those healers would react in more casual statics (We've had a few hardcore healers sub in occasionally, and it tends to not work out well lol)

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when most people say no healing they refer that there's no healing needed outside of "scripted" healing which is 100% true. cause unless somebody messes up a mechanic it's literally 0 healing needed and besides it only like one extra oGCD heal being used. boy i sure am healing a lot. also yes we're human we all make mistakes even top tier players make mistakes but thats how you learn you progress. and considering we literally have content being completed healerless and a tank that can in fact solo a dungeon. dismissing the fact that healers are becoming less needed is a huge oversight. P1s was cleared by 8 tanks.

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Originally Posted by pikalovr

i will trivialize content cause people are clearing it without healers and hell sometimes even without DPS. the only reason content is harder is not the content it's the players those are two completely different things. even you yourself said we only need two healers if SOMEBODY messes up not the content requiring it. cause it's all scripted and not hitting hard enough/frequent enough to need it

also boo hoo SMN uses their swift cast on a raise or RDM uses one of their many dualcasts on raising especially if it's during downtimes they lose one GCD to do the entire thing you brought a second whole healer for.nd guess what they 'lls till deal more damage overall even losing that one GCD compared to bringing another healer



when most people say no healing they refer that there's no healing needed outside of "scripted" healing which is 100% true. cause unless somebody messes up a mechanic it's literally 0 healing needed and besides it only like one extra oGCD heal being used. boy i sure am healing a lot. also yes we're human we all make mistakes even top tier players make mistakes but thats how you learn you progress. and considering we literally have content being completed healerless and a tank that can in fact solo a dungeon. dismissing the fact that healers are becoming less needed is a huge oversight. P1s was cleared by 8 tanks.

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E4S was cleared with SMNs and 2 tanks. People do weird things with certain comps.