About the new 24 Man Alliance Raid.

We went in with a mostly pre-made group comprised of well geared Savage players, and went in blind for fun.

It was really amazing because we managed to avoid a total wipe on the first three bosses through sheer bullheadedness and knowing to save LB3 for healers, with about a dozen of us on voice chat hashing out mechanics in real time.

4th boss wiped us because we were overthinking the scale mechanic.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

It’s a step up from a Nier for sure. We should keep encouraging challenging content. Personally I died a few times on my first run and once on my second. I feel it is harder. It’s definitely not boring in my opinion.

Plus the artwork and the gods themselves are top notch.

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You may have died but how many times did you actually wipe?

Individual player deaths are entirely inconsequential in 24 mans generally and until that changes I don't think I'll ever see these as difficult.

Looks nice, though.

Had my first run today, design and music are all very nice.

Lots of deaths and near-party-wipes, but always managed to pick each other back up preventing any full wipe.

Doesn't really seem much different difficulty-wise from when each of the Nier raids was new.

It makes so much difference if an alliance raid is fresh and new with most people being clueless about mechanics and just learning, or if most people have already been repeating it for weeks or months with fewer and fewer clueless players as time goes on.
Can really only compare their difficulty at the same point in time where the player base had the same amount of experience and repetition with each.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You may have died but how many times did you actually wipe?

Individual player deaths are entirely inconsequential in 24 mans generally and until that changes I don't think I'll ever see these as difficult.

Looks nice, though.

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I don't really understand why people want to wipe in DF 24 man content, and I say this as someone who has spent hundreds if not thousands of hours wiping in EX/Savage/Ultimate.

I like going in and being personally challenged; Optimizing a melee job around something like Nald'Thals jumps, or Rhalgrs knockbacks can be personally challenging and rewarding without potentially wasting my time. I don't want to take over an hour every week to clear through the 24 man simply because some Duty Finder glue huffer is having a mortal struggle trying to wasd their character onto a glowing marker and drop a simple aoe.

It's interesting to see the various opinions here.

I ran it yesterday. I think we wiped once, nearly wiped several more times. I certainly died a ton. For me, it felt about the same difficulty as the NIER alliance raids (which is to say, constant chaos.) I did those once to see the story, then didn't really touch them again except the first wing near the end of ShB, or when the duty roulette put me into it. I expect I won't go back into this 24-man until much later, except when the next wings are released. I just don't find the overwhelming (to me) amount of mechanics very fun, and would much rather queue for CT or something.

Cool concept and story, though. I'm excited to find out more about the Twelve.

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Originally Posted by FoxyAreku

You may have died but how many times did you actually wipe?

Individual player deaths are entirely inconsequential in 24 mans generally and until that changes I don't think I'll ever see these as difficult.

Looks nice, though.

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Once, balance mechanic. Honestly though I don’t feel the same way, if I die I’m responsible and it adds to my personal challenge to overcome and not be a dead weight.

So just because others carried doesn’t mean it’s not challenging since I’m not okay getting dragged to the finish line. Therefore I have to improve, memorize the mechanics etc…

I’m okay with total wipe mechanics too. But a lack there of doesn’t make it lack difficulty. Simply means you have to get good on a personal level. Or…. Be that person they had haul out in a body bag.

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Originally Posted by katz_brez

It's interesting to see the various opinions here.

I ran it yesterday. I think we wiped once, nearly wiped several more times. I certainly died a ton. For me, it felt about the same difficulty as the NIER alliance raids (which is to say, constant chaos.) I did those once to see the story, then didn't really touch them again except the first wing near the end of ShB, or when the duty roulette put me into it. I expect I won't go back into this 24-man until much later, except when the next wings are released. I just don't find the overwhelming (to me) amount of mechanics very fun, and would much rather queue for CT or something.

Cool concept and story, though. I'm excited to find out more about the Twelve.

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Oh boy. Unfortunately we are very different in that regard, I can see CT being cathartic now a days but it has the difficulty of cookie clicker and well… most people are watching TV or doing other things while they do CT in the background, so no one’s really there. That just doesn’t sound like fun to me. But I respect a different view point.

I will add though CT wasn’t always like that. Scylla would wipe entire parties for one missed purple orb, not being in a puddle for flare Was insta death. During glasya (the guy that does nothing now) people had to stop the bits from powering him and tanks had to grab some adds and people had to jump into platforms.

Like the original vision the developer had when that came out wasn’t the hollow shell you see today.

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Originally Posted by Ath192

Once, balance mechanic. Honestly though I don’t feel the same way, if I die I’m responsible and it adds to my personal challenge to overcome and not be a dead weight.

So just because others carried doesn’t mean it’s not challenging since I’m not okay getting dragged to the finish line. Therefore I have to improve, memorize the mechanics etc…

I’m okay with total wipe mechanics too. But a lack there of doesn’t make it lack difficulty. Simply means you have to get good on a personal level. Or…. Be that person they had haul out in a body bag.

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Im a big fan of fights like the first one in Dun Scaith. I think this fits what you are describing well

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Originally Posted by Wyssahtyn

Still waiting for that promised difficulty.

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I don't know, I've cleared Savage tiers and an Ultimate and I dropped out after the first boss because I was dying so much I was dead weight in the party.

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Originally Posted by katz_brez

It's interesting to see the various opinions here.

I ran it yesterday. I think we wiped once, nearly wiped several more times. I certainly died a ton. For me, it felt about the same difficulty as the NIER alliance raids (which is to say, constant chaos.) I did those once to see the story, then didn't really touch them again except the first wing near the end of ShB, or when the duty roulette put me into it. I expect I won't go back into this 24-man until much later, except when the next wings are released. I just don't find the overwhelming (to me) amount of mechanics very fun, and would much rather queue for CT or something.

Cool concept and story, though. I'm excited to find out more about the Twelve.

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The different opinions are why its difficult to design content like this. People want different things

People need to accept that not all content is for them, and at the same time SE should try to make some content to appeal to various playstyles, within reason.

Right now I feel what is lacking most is more interesting 4 man content, but thats just me. I dont want mythic+ with its extra level of stress, but there is a middle ground