Is it just me or are some Healers refusing to Heal Paladins?

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Originally Posted by Hanayumi

I shame Paladins that use Clemency, you're not getting healed till you're under 10% and You Will Like It! Quit being chicken...

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Gonna be real. If a PLD dips below 10% on your average w2w trash pull, that's a gid gud problem on either the PLD's part or the DPS's part. Strong mitigation and self-healing tools should keep the PLD up without it ever needing to even contemplate using Clemency provided the trash packs aren't lasting so long they actually run out of CDs.

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Originally Posted by Absimiliard

Gonna be real. If a PLD dips below 10% on your average w2w trash pull, that's a gid gud problem on either the PLD's part or the DPS's part. Strong mitigation and self-healing tools should keep the PLD up without it ever needing to even contemplate using Clemency provided the trash packs aren't lasting so long they actually run out of CDs.

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this was before the PLD changes but the one time I let my HP dip below 10% the healer straight let me die and went, "sorry fam used to WARs" lol. either way yeah just pop your GCD you'll be gucci

but telling the pld to use clemency so you dont have to heal them is just kinda sus

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

I think your comment is the most moderate and I’d argue fair when comes to healers. Yes Healer should DPS to help out, but when you make your tank feel like they are walking a tightrope it can be nerve wrecking however, I typically don’t complain as much with that play style anymore because as long as I am still alive they have done their job.

I feel you as this is a balancing issue and I feel Sage’s were created for the specific player base who likes to DPS.

On other jobs like Gunbreaker and Dark Knight its business as usual in terms of tanking, but again with Paladins there is now an expectation of you healing yourself the entire time and the Healers barely healing and they DPS now 98% of the time except for boss battles.

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That is exactly what SGE is supposed to be. Still not enough for the DPS minded healer though. I am of the mind that those players should give RDM a try to see if it is more fitting. Unfortunately, playing RDM loses out on the luxury of healer queue times. RDMs also have to sacrifice damage to heal, a big no-no for the DPS-minded healer. However, playing RDM lets you know why healers exist, because your ability to do it, while respectable, is very limited.

Point remains though that a healer refusing to heal, regardless of the job or role is basically a stubborn old goat who likely should get with the program instead of wallowing in their bubble.

There's a main healer and an off healer (H1 / H2) in 8 member groups and you kinda get a feel on who's what. That being said, there is also the fact that if a healer doesn't need to heal then that time can be spent on stable DPS instead if it's a good idea to do. For instance, if you're doing expert roul. with a WHM. The WHM will pop mitigation and healing over time and let the tank do the rest unless it's necessary to step-in. The reason is because of holy being really important at being able to deal the most damage in the entire party. This shortens the run tremendously. You can tell the difference between an experienced tank and a non-experienced one once the healer starts using their lilies. BUT this is an extreme example. Most of the time players don't know how to play their own class and often times go straight into duty roul. without practice and brings the entire party down.

As for sage, they are a mitigation class first rather than healing first. Sage doesn't have the amount of heals that a WHM has but it has nice shields instead. It takes an eternity for sage to re-cast their heals so you have to take that into account that just because they're not healing, it doesn't mean they're not shielding. If the healer has to heal themselves particularly a lot, they're not doing a good job dodging and the tank isn't keeping aggro as they should. But there are healers who don't understand that you don't attack before the tank and you give enough time for the tank to generate enough enmity. Every class is pretty complex when you delve deep enough into it but unfortunately the majority don't so you end up with healers never healing and as a WHM main, I do see this a lot and end up carrying the whole party, sometimes the whole alliance groups if their healers are all atrocious. It's not that I'm just that good, it's that they are just that bad at their class lol!

I've noticed a huge disparity in survivability between tanks. WAR and DRK being the top when it comes to my percieved frailty. In general, both seem to be able to stop damage almost flat, to the point I barely have to heal them except the occasional oGCD when their main mitigation is on CD (Bloodwhetting and TBN).

PLD is a middle ground, they can't stop damage that much so their health tends to float lower, still in general it feels like their health depletes more slowly than the others, their self recovery is less potent imo, unless they spam clemency ofc.)

GBN feels absolutely weak and frail. I have a 600 weapon, my ilvl is 596 at this point, all 600 items except the chestpiece and I still struggle to heal GBN. They spend my Lustrates, Excog and other CDs so quickly. They are almost always brought down to 40% in the first seconds of mob pulls and its a tough recovery to the point I am often forced into adloquium spam to keep them from dying.

Hoo boy they got a laser scope pointed directly at my account.

The post was barely an hour old, she was just a baby :(

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Originally Posted by HisShadowX

exhausted healing himself well the healer is just DPSing.

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Healers in this game don't like healing. They like being DPS with a fast queue time. They'll tell you that they like healing but it's not actually what they want.

Every time I see one of the "QQ healers are bored" threads I suggest that they ask the dev team for more opportunities to use their kit. Implement more unavoidable damage. Have more mechanics that target specific targets where the boss will focus them for a bit or put out debuffs that increase damage taken.

But the responses I get for even suggesting such a thing. Oh boy. They don't want to heal more, they want a better DPS combo.

They don't want to be healers, they want to be DPS with fast queues. And if that means tossing out a heal every now and again then it's worth it for them.

This community has a bad mentality of "if you're not pushing out the most DPS that you can at all times, then you're bad and shouldn't be playing with others".

It's all about damage and nothing more. I've been told that if a heal requires a GCD, I should heavily consider not using it because I'll lose 300 potency of damage.

The games community is very much set on "Offense is the best defense." Kill it fast and it can't kill you.

Which isn't an incorrect statement. But losing out on 300 potency to greatly reduce the risk of a wipe if a mistake is made isn't going to be what breaks your run.

And if it is? Then you have bigger problems to worry about.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Healers in this game don't like healing. They like being DPS with a fast queue time. They'll tell you that they like healing but it's not actually what they want.

Every time I see one of the "QQ healers are bored" threads I suggest that they ask the dev team for more opportunities to use their kit. Implement more unavoidable damage. Have more mechanics that target specific targets where the boss will focus them for a bit or put out debuffs that increase damage taken.

But the responses I get for even suggesting such a thing. Oh boy. They don't want to heal more, they want a better DPS combo.

They don't want to be healers, they want to be DPS with fast queues. And if that means tossing out a heal every now and again then it's worth it for them.

This community has a bad mentality of "if you're not pushing out the most DPS that you can at all times, then you're bad and shouldn't be playing with others".

It's all about damage and nothing more. I've been told that if a heal requires a GCD, I should heavily consider not using it because I'll lose 300 potency of damage.

The games community is very much set on "Offense is the best defense." Kill it fast and it can't kill you.

Which isn't an incorrect statement. But losing out on 300 potency to greatly reduce the risk of a wipe if a mistake is made isn't going to be what breaks your run.

And if it is? Then you have bigger problems to worry about.

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No, it's because most people are aware Devs will never increase incoming damage to the point where healers will consistently have to heal. It's an accessibility thing, and has been that way for multiple expansions now. They want the game to be readily available for all players and to make content easy enough to clear - which means limited amount of incoming damage. That formula will never change in order to cater to a larger playerbase. That invariably means healers will get bored the better players get if there's nothing else to heal because they will never need to use their full toolkit. This is only a problem with 90% of our toolkit becomes suddenly useless since there's not enough damage that warrants using those tools. This also extends to all roles getting more ways to contribute to healing - by mitigation or support/healing utility and by giving gear syncs.

Thus people turn to DPS. DPS skills are always useful, and will always create some form of engagement without complicating things too much. Plus, they mention that they want healer DPS to be optional, so that's a perfect time to give healers more DPS options. No matter how much more damage you put in, it's not going to work because it conflicts with the developers vision of accessibility.

Honestly, I don't want just a 1-2-3 DPS combo. I want healer DPS to just be more engaging, so I don't have to feel like I'm just spamming Dosis / Dykrasia and waiting for something new to happen while my healing abilities just keep everyone healthy.

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Originally Posted by Padudu

I'd say I get those types of healers more in P1-4Ns for some reasons, sages being the biggest offenders with being greedy with their heals and deciding to dps more. Seriously during a P3N run with my SO being my DRK co-tank, his healing was on par with both the AST and the sage by using TBN lmao when we checked FFlogs. I was constantly floating around 5-10k hp the entire fight and only lived due to TBN being on me + clemency nonstop.

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Since you decided to bring fflogs up and attack healers over this, where is your source?

Your only Pandemonium Normal logs, your healers were the exact opposite, low dps and healing too much. You also were struggling significantly with RDM and aren't really in a position to judge others. I call nonsense on your whole story.

Also Sages can literally solo heal P1-4n while spamming Dosis the entire time. I've seen it and done it myself.

It’s possible they expect you to invul on a very large pull.
I ran into this before and it actually feel satisfying when you pull it off right, cause huge pull is the #1 worthy use of an invul in a dungeon.
It’s not necessarily that they would let you die is all I’m saying.