You guys gotta learn to be patient in PF

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

What PF needs is people who can read and UNDERSTAND what they're reading

Know mechanics doesn't mean Know mechanic. One is plural, the other isn't. If you only know ONE mechanic, guess what? You don't know mechanicS

Farm Party is not Clear Party.

Clear Party is not Farm Party.

3 wipes = disband is not a reason to harangue the party leader about why they disbanded when 3 wipes occurred.

Too many mistakes = kick is not a reason to hassle the party leader about why you got kicked for too many mistakes.

The better you understand, the less of a trap you're making the party ought to be.

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I think many understand well enough what they are reading. They want a potential free ride, hoping others will follow what's written to enable them to do so.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I think many understand well enough what they are reading. They want a potential free ride, hoping others will follow what's written to enable them to do so.

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This is a huge problem. Being a bit late, I'm currently trying to clear the 3rd boss. And I am - literally - stuck in P1.

Is this a problem with the difficulty of this phase? Of course not. It's the one that looks the easiest in the whole fight. The problem is actually players who sign up for PF that require a known P1; but don't know it perfectly, and make everyone wipe over and over.

Result: you wanted to train for the add phase and beyond. You end up mothering people on a phase you know perfectly well.

I'm one of those people who are patient with a game. I've never insulted anyone; I'm happy to explain things; and I usually give the group at least ten chances. Often much more, because I play healer and I know that the departure of a "key role" can lead to disbandment.

But people need to pay more attention to the requirements, and not assume that "well, it'll pass, I'll take one or two AOEs but the others will make up for it". It's just as disrespectful as the super-elitist player who can't stand one false move (even though we've all made them).


(And yes, I'm venting some of my frustration here. It's better than doing it IG...).

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Every static I've been in has wiped during reclears some weeks. Sometimes the silliest mistakes, but you just laugh it off and go again. I've watched world first raid teams, rank 1 players, triple legends and the rest wipe multiple times to silly mistakes. It's human and it happens.

PF's "2 mistakes = kick, or disband" nonsense is completely unrealistic. Especially in a group full of people who don't even know each other. Sure, if someone's clearly new to the fight or playing their class wrong, get rid of them. But kicking a solid player over a slip up or two, or throwing the entire group away, is shooting yourself in the foot. Yet it happens constantly.

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Exactly. It's honestly just another sort of casual toxicity.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Every static I've been in has wiped during reclears some weeks. Sometimes the silliest mistakes, but you just laugh it off and go again. I've watched world first raid teams, rank 1 players, triple legends and the rest wipe multiple times to silly mistakes. It's human and it happens.

PF's "2 mistakes = kick, or disband" nonsense is completely unrealistic. Especially in a group full of people who don't even know each other. Sure, if someone's clearly new to the fight or playing their class wrong, get rid of them. But kicking a solid player over a slip up or two, or throwing the entire group away, is shooting yourself in the foot. Yet it happens constantly.

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The huge difference is you know those people know the fight perfectly and won't keep making mistakes over and over. There is no guarantee of that with people you don't know in PF. Especially when those people don't even say anything about their mistake and hope that no one notices.

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Originally Posted by Breakbeat

I am NA, I am patient, in the extreme.

Thanks for lumping me in there though... 'cause I am also part of "you guys".

Generalizations suck, specifically because of this. You do a disservice to the good folks when you generalize.

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Yet when it becomes a generalization, then that usually means it is something to at least look at and see if there is an issue. This is coming from a NA player, the community from 2.0 is VERY different than 6.0 and you would have to be blind to miss it. I much prefer the jp mentality of it takes 1 minute longer than the na mentality of min maxing a video game. I just wish our community had a nice middle ground instead of people refusing to use oGCDs yell at people that will kick you if your opener isn't 100% optimized and vice versa.

Absolutely. I've had quite a few instances this tier where I've had to talk someone down who was threatening to leave after 2-3 wipes. I try to explain to them that their constant party-hopping is probably a big part of the reason they haven't cleared yet. Unsurprisingly we usually kill 1-2 pulls later in those parties. It's particularly common if you're helping out clear parties for fights people tend to get stuck on.

A lot of it seems to stem from the old dunning-kruger effect. So... SO many of the people I've seen rage out and leave parties aren't even performing well.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

Also, as an addendum, the fact that NA PF is often so impatient that they don't even want to briefly discuss Ashplume spread spots before the pull, and end up wiping to Ashplume spread 8 mins into the encounter is just stupid.

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LMAO YES. I've ranted about this EXACT THING so many times. The amount of times I've entered a p3s party and been told to "stop being stupid and use your eyes" only to watch that persons entire light party die to the first Ashplume spread EVERY TIME. P3S really makes the JP macro system look more appealing.

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Originally Posted by Skiros

What PF needs isn't skill or more awareness. It's patience. Leaving and tilting after two wipes at two different places due to different players is only going to make the problem worse. In my experience the most successful PFs are the ones that are patient with no obvious weak links.

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I agree although it depends. Sometimes it's obvious that the party is capable of doing it and is doing everything flawless and the mistakes are just that, mistakes. A little more patience would have got the clear. Sometimes though, you can tell that there are people who cleared without being good at the fight.

You are spot on about the problem with Party Finder being that everyone has different habits, different positions and strategies that they are used to. They are used to the subtle movements and buffing habits of the people in their original clear party and because these habits are different in another party, it can take some wipes to get used to eachother.

This problem is reduced on EU data centers because of the use of macros, where positions are pre-determined. If you are the off-tank, you are always in the same place for every mechanic in every party and that is a lot better than what happens in NA.

If it's a practice party I have patience.
If it's a clear group/ seen enrage group I have limited patience.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

PF's "2 mistakes = kick, or disband" nonsense is completely unrealistic. Especially in a group full of people who don't even know each other. Sure, if someone's clearly new to the fight or playing their class wrong, get rid of them. But kicking a solid player over a slip up or two, or throwing the entire group away, is shooting yourself in the foot. Yet it happens constantly.

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Before I joined my current static, I was a "3 wipes = kicks or disband" leader, but I also got a week 1 P2S kill and week 2 P3S kill with complete pugs. The trick is that you use those 3 wipes to gather information and then act on that information instead of blindly disbanding. If you get 3 wipes that are caused by 3 different people at 3 different points in the fight, put it up to a vote. Both of those kills came from groups that hit 3 wipes and got asked "should we disband" and said "no, let's keep all 8 of us around and keep at it". I didn't actually have to kick or disband in either case, because even though the P2S party took an hour and a half to fill (playing at off-peak hours + "3 wipes = kicks or disband" tends to do that), I wound up with a team of 8 people who were consistent with Limit Cut and knew the rest of the mechanics, and we hammered out a kill over an hour or so. P3S took the better part of 6 hours with mostly the same group (had to replace the offtank due to our first one getting IRL aggro, but the new one knew the fight), but after hitting our three wipe "limit", deciding to keep trying, and immediately seeing a 2% enrage on the fourth wipe, everyone was like "yeah let's buckle down, everyone food and pot, clean it up and we'll kill" and we got it in the end.

The whole point of that line is to scare off people who know for sure they're going to trap the party. I include that in my clear party descriptions because if I don't do that, we otherwise don't have any filters at all on who can join aside from item level (which is eventually irrelevant) and duty completion status, which doesn't help when you know the fight just as well as the people who have cleared, but you can't actually get the kill because you keep getting trapped.

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Originally Posted by Kolsykol

If it's a practice party I have patience.
If it's a clear group/ seen enrage group I have limited patience.

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This is more than fair. If you've seen enrage multiple times and are consistent with all the fight mechanics, you have every right to expect the same of your teammates and to leave groups that advertise themselves as meeting that standard when they actually don't.

Hot take:

Don't be patient in duty finder.
Leave it, go do something else, come back next week.

This will make the que shorter for me, and the people who ARE able to be patient and calm. It'll also leave me better more level headed and kinder people to run PF dungeons with.