(Ninja) Why is Hurajin and Thing?

Kinda sometimes wonder if they might ever move towards removing the mudras altogether and just having the skills be their own buttons that share a recast timer.

The mudras are thematic, they're iconic, they're pretty cool even. But are they necessary?

Guess they do save on a couple buttons... And it can be moderately fun to feel like you're actually executing the skill with sequential button presses...

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

Kinda sometimes wonder if they might ever move towards removing the mudras altogether and just having the skills be their own buttons that share a recast timer.

The mudras are thematic, they're iconic, they're pretty cool even. But are they necessary?

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Nothing fun is "necessary" and not only would making each Ninjutsu cast be its own ability take up more buttons, but it would also reduce the sense of dynamism in the job from having lost its .5s and 1.5s GCDs therein.

I'd argue that we should lose the ability to bunny --seeing as it exists, after all of three minutes of practice, only to punish those with higher ping or packet loss-- and could then make the separate Ninjutsu button itself optional, too, with the ability otherwise being released upon hitting any of the mudra a second time within the same series (X-Chi-Chi = Raiton; X-Y-Jin-Jin = Suiton, etc.).

I also wouldn't be opposed to Huraijin giving only 30 second of Huton, being chargeable by Gust Blade, and thereafter replacing Armor Crush, to drop a further bloat button. (And, of course, let Phantom Kamaitachi replace Bunshin while the latter is active.)

Final nit-pick: Increase Fleeting Raiton's range to 4 yalms, up from the normal 3, and have Forked Raiton replace Fleeting Raiton if out of range if Forked Raiton hasn't itself been put on any of your action bars.

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Originally Posted by Satarn

Also screw the idea of turning Huton into a trait and removing another combo from the job. It's there to add some gcds variety between bursts, something we need more of, not even less. You still have to pay attention to it and it even has a different positional. It's not like DRK's Darkside that just stays on as long as you spend MP on anything.

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I wouldn't mind losing Armor Crush for a returned Shadow Fang combo. Ideally, though, I'd take both.

However, it's not like the only possible uses for combo-finishers are (A) gauge-maintenance, (B) DoT effects, or (C) superior direct damage.

Even if Huton were made a trait, we could still have Armor Crush (perhaps renamed to Gale Spike or whatnot) supply something interesting and unique, such as to grant different bonus effects to 'wind type' attacks within a given duration, up to maximum count not expendable in its duration by Aeolian Edge alone. In that way it could prime Bunshin, perhaps upgrade Throwing Daggers to be nearer average ppgcd and not break combos, turn Aeolian into a blink-strike if (and only if) out of melee range, or even briefly allowing one to skip over Spinning Edge in favor of later steps in combo, etc. More variety, not less, for having detached it from being NIN's Storm's Eye equivalent.

I'm not sure why they didn't make Huton a trait like Greased Lightning and then just either give you a new Ninjutsu or just delete that combination.

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Originally Posted by Burningskull

I'm not sure why they didn't make Huton a trait like Greased Lightning and then just either give you a new Ninjutsu or just delete that combination.

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Probably because they haven't yet come up with anything to replace it in a kit that's already reduced mostly to 123 spam between Trick Attacks (and its 20s-prior Suiton cast).

Deleting a core mechanic, however wonky or lackluster at this point, without a better replacement would rightly earn some really bad rep.

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Originally Posted by Soge01

(Bit of a mild rant.)

We have mudra to activate Huton and Armor Crush to keep it up, so why even include Hurajin unless it's to lower the skill ceiling of the job class. It's not very hard to keep Huton up at all without Hurajin. Just feels like a useless skill tacted onto Ninja. Phantom Kamitachi should just take its place as a separate button from Bunshin that you could activate every 30 seconds or just straight up use with the Ninja gauge.

I'm only at level at 83 with Ninja, so I don't know how the rest of the new abilities work yet, but so far I think Hurajin should just be outright removed from Ninja as it doesn't bring anything to the table that actually improves Ninja's playstyle and is just useless button bloat that only recently new players would use.

Thoughts?

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Hurajin is not button bloat if it has uses, niche as they would be.

If you personally never need to use it ever, just don't drag it into your hotbars. By this logic, BLM's Umbral Soul is also bloat because it serves a similar purpose.

Button bloat to me is either:
a) Rotational actions that are convoluted just for the sake of it;
b) Actions that won't find any use ever (i.e. SMN's Physick)

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Originally Posted by Raikai

Hurajin is not button bloat if it has uses, niche as they would be.

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The capacity isn't bloat. That it takes an additional button, though, arguably is.

Consider:

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<Ability A>
Delivers an attack of 220 potency.
280 when executed from target's flank.
Additional Effect: Grants 30s of Huton duration, to a maximum of 60s.
Combo Action: Gust Slash
Combo Potency: 320
Flank Combo Potency: 380
Combo Bonus: Increases Ninki Gauge by 15.

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With just that tiniest of changes to Armor Crush --raising its uncomboed potency faintly and changing it from extending Huton to granting it, via an Additional Effect instead of Combo bonus-- would there then be any reason to have a separate button for Huraijin?

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The capacity isn't bloat. That it takes an additional button, though, arguably is.

Consider:


With just that tiniest of changes to Armor Crush --raising its uncomboed potency faintly and changing it from extending Huton to granting it, via an Additional Effect instead of Combo bonus-- would there then be any reason to have a separate button for Huraijin?

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That would be totally fine! I was just questioning the OP as they analyze the situation as it is, however this scenario would be even better.

I think the skill is fine.
The one change I'd make to ninja is make it so that you can't cast the same mudra again twice in a row. That way you don't have to worry about making sure your inputs go through without accidentally pressing the same button twice and wasting the mudra.

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Originally Posted by Anhra

The thing about Huraijin isnt about it being a bad skill in any regard. The problem is, its place in the entire NIN kit.

Huton is a buff that is granted ONLY by doing the proper ninjutsu for it. And since were completely skipping the process of doing said ninjutsu, simply by using Huraijin instead, then why is Huton still a Ninjutsu then in the first place, instead of being just a generic Buff that can simply be applied by Huraijin?

In short, it makes the existence of Huton being a ninjutsu completely worthless.

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Exactly; all I really want is a reason to use the jutsu version of Huton be worth the extra effort now. Outside of using once before a boss encounter; there are no 0 reasons to use the old way of putting on Huton. So give extra buff if you use the jutsu way, or turn Huraijin into a proc or oGCD that does something extra that can only be used if Huton is already up for a certain length of time.