Revert the Ninja change please, thanks.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dustoid

and a bit awkward to instead have 2 nearly identical abilities on the action bar, is it not?

---

Another way to put it is that we have a high-damage ability, Fleeting Raiju, and a situation gap closer, Forked Raiju, than doesn't involve a damage trade off with Fleeting Raiju.

As a practical matter, they spent resources to create the Fleeting Raiju graphic, etc., and they likely don't have the resources to wholly replace it with something else at the beginning of the expansion. The change that they made seems like a really good one given the likely constraints.

I think they should revert it back and put forked and fleeting raiju together BUT make it not break from weapon skills and allow us the freedom to use the stacks in the buff window simular to how the new bushin is. This would solve the forced gap closer, cant attack while bound, max melee issues, while still keeping that dope back to back animation it use to have and make it feel flexible. Because personally the skills comes off as boring now compared to before, I never use the other really and its just plan not as cool.

Thread is so troll, 4-6 GCDs with a gap closer + forced mini stun that takes you out of max melee range and gets interrupted if you use a WS is absolutely terrible. It would also completely screw you on many mechanics in savage where you need to stay max melee.

New changes feel much better from a gameplay perspective, also the old gap closer was more of a downside then a benefit because of the mini-stun + jump out of max melee... I'm on enrage of p4s p2 savage and I think there's one time I've actually used forked the entire week, most gap closes can just be done with Shukuchi <t> macro during oGCD which is also good for animation canceling.

After beating the savage tier I'd say personally pretty much every encounter would be near unplayable if there still were any forced gapclosers built into the rotation. Even if you were given the ability to simply hold them you would end up in a lot of situations where you would hold them for way too long since some of the movement sections take some time to resolve, which would not be very satisfying since you still want to use your Raijus under TA.

Since you can now simply use Fleeting Raiju and not have to worry about the gapcloser, bursting inside the trick windows is very satisfying and I think they found a good direction to take Ninja into.

I agree that it felt like Forked -> Fleeting was meant to be a combo/chain type of skill and was pretty fun aesthetically, but like many gapclosers in the game once you use them at melee range they just end up looking really awkward, since the animation is obviously intended to carry you across a certain distance.

Besides Fleeting Raiju feels like the better half of the Raiju combo and suits the slot of a level 90 skill better, and spamming it especially under Bunshin is the best NIN has ever felt. Although I'd still like to see some adjustments to Ninja's potencies especially, as optimizing feels really awkward and because of Raiju being much stronger now you once again end up not wanting to use Phantom Kamaitachi inside trick, which is also a side effect of the more awkward Ninki gain.
I personally can't think of any other solutions left that I would like to see, maybe there is some merit in giving us 2 stacks of Raiju with each Raiton? This would fix the Ninki gain issue and boost our potency, but as cool as Fleeting Raiju is it might get boring to use it that often.

The problem with the Ninki gauge is basically that in 6.0 it was completely fine because you used so many Raijus but they only gave 5 Ninki each, so it evens out despite the 15 Ninki you now gain from your combo finishers. So similarly to Shadowbringers, you would enter a lot of Trick Attack windows with near full Ninki Gauge 90-100, and could spend 2 Bhavacakras pretty consistently inside them which was a nice way to do more damage inside buff windows. But since we now use Raiju a lot less as of 6.05, as well as practically have one more stack of Bunshin thanks to Phantom Kamaitachi being seperate, we actually generate MORE Ninki than we ever did before so you end up with awkward Ninki timings where you can't pool your gauge for Trick Attack windows properly without overcapping and you end up not getting 2 but only 1 Bhavacakra inside buffs. It feels like this was an oversight of trying to address the Raiju problem first so I hope to see this fixed.

yes,i agree with the ninki feeling awkward,and correct me if im wrong,but wouldnt making it so that each raiju gives 10 ninki fix the problum?if yes,i hope this change is implimented

Yes Ninki definitely feels very awkward now. Like going into the 1M trick with 65 ninki because you need to burn a bhava right before your AE/AC -> Trick.

The 6.05 changes made NIN feel pretty good again, would love for them to address our overall potencies and smoothing out Ninki to be more natural if you have full uptime.. not a fan of being lowest dps just because we have Trick Attack even though we're the highest APM class with one of the busiest burst phases many times during heavy mechanics this tier.

That being said, your 2 min trick feels very fun now when you hold mug a few seconds (3-4 Bhavas), hopefully you have good ping though because it has 2 double weaves :o

I also don't understand how NIN wasn't included in Yoshi P's recent comment about increasing damage on classes that do lots of work (couldn't quite understand why monk was in there when they are already top 2 dps). But with trick that's 22 buttons in 15 seconds while doing mechanics... and it's alot of different buttons compared to some other classes burst phases. I play NIN because I really enjoy the high APM burst phase playstyle and figuring out how to line things up based on fights & mechanics, but really wish we could be more competitive again like ShB.

https://i.imgur.com/l1LGCP4.png

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dustoid

However, it's a shame to lose a fun 2-step combo, and a bit awkward to instead have 2 nearly identical abilities on the action bar, is it not?

---

I don't see why they didn't just, at this point, turn the gap closer into a conditional element. Give Forked/Fleeting a 4-yalm range, up from the normal 3-yalm melee range and have the gap-closer activate (or, have Forked replace Fleeting) only if out of that 4-yalm range. Voila, no bloat necessary.

...That said, I'd have preferred to stick that feature on each, keep the two-step combo, and perhaps have Forked Raijuu Ready's duration shrink to 5-10 seconds in exchange for not having our weaponskill combo actions cancel it. The back-to-back attacks looked so good, imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strife

not a fan of being lowest dps just because we have Trick Attack even though we're the highest APM class with one of the busiest burst phases many times during heavy mechanics this tier.

---

The only damage adjustment, outside of having more rDPS than anyone about equally busy and lacking non-rDPS utility, I want to see from NIN is for Trick Attack's effect to vary with target as not to punish it in light party content for being balanced around 8-man content.

Give me a whopping ~15% on a typical mob, ~8% on a dungeon boss, the current 5% on an 8-man, and perhaps only ~3% on a 24-man boss since it's the only raid buff that affects all 24 players, instead of just their 8-man party.

NIN changes are great. Can even delay Phantom Kamaitachi to use in the trick window now.

Here are my thoughts (I am not a big raider).

I like the direction they took for the raiju skills. Contrary to some players, I never felt Forked+Fleeting like a natural combo, regarding gameplay and visual animation. Fleeting should be our finisher and that works better like that in 6.05 instead of 6.0, whereas Forked should be used whenever we need to gap close (better and easier to use than Shukuchi, even if the latter is still useful) independently of Fleeting.

However, if I like being able to vary between Forked+Forked, Forked+Fleeting, Fleeting+Forked or Fleeting+Fleeting, Fleeting can be in theory removed from the bar which is strange. They should (and I thin they will do it one day) improve slightly Fleeting potency to justify its use without punishing too much multiple use of Forked gap closer.

Raiju frequency is better in 6.05 that it was in 6.0 where I was almost the feeling that ninja was raiju.

Some players didn't like ninja since they felt bored between trick attack windows. I can understand that even if I disagree. The combo buff window busy + softer downtime while preparing for next buff window was a good equilibrium compared to other DPS jobs. Now, we have slightly more ressource management with Raiju and Kamatachi which makes us a little more busy while still being accessible to new players (ninja is not often played compared to the other DPS jobs).

Ninja is more flexible and versatile than ever and that is good since it is one of his identity and one the main reason I like ninja.

Can someone explain to me the reason of the 5 free ninki from Kamaitachi when used outside Bunshin ? If I think I understand they add this to make us use it under TA even when Bunshin is not available, it is generally, if I am not wrong, depending on the team and their burst window alignment, a DPS loss if we use it under TA and Bunshin when both are aligned, since we lose this free 5 ninki we could have if we use Kamaitachi outside Bunshin : Kamaitachi potency buffed by TA < kamaitachi potency not buffed by TA + 5 free ninki (40 potency if we use Bhavacakra).

Except this free 5 ninki i am not sure to understand right now (maybe just a problem of Kamaitachi potency as mentioned above), I like the current version of the ninja.
However, my perfect ninja would be a smoother TA window (too tight), a 70s fuuton , a more consistent ninki management (as mentioned in messages above) and a come back of a DoT single target skill (Shadow Fang or even better a new ninjutsu, maybe this in 7.0).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yuurei_007

Here are my thoughts (I am not a big raider).

---

The 5 free ninki was only because it originally gave you however much it gave because it took a shade when cast. When they seperated it they just added that shades ninki generation to it.