RDM should get a slight nerf

For the sake of argument you can just as easily overkill it with mitigation because it's multiplicative. A well-coordinated team will make good use of either/both Phoenix and Magick Barrier's abilities, though Magick Barrier's would be easier to take advantage of for most teams.

to have tested the 3 casters 90, I don't think the red mage should be nerfed, but the summoner needs a lot of potency adjustment on phoenix and ifrit so that he is slightly ahead of the red mage in dps. , but really '' slightly '', in front, even if it means having to make adjustments on the black mage so that the balance of the caster is good, which is currently not the case,
a nerf is not necessary on the red mage, on the other hand the monk, reaper and dark knight must come down from their privileged clouds
and some jobs like dancer / summoner / paladin, etc, ... adjusted.

People do not understand that the potency values ​​of pets still have a tax and that 100 of potency for example on the phoenix hot is only 80 ''real'' potency, as for ahk morn / revelation which have a displayed potency of 1300 but which is only about 1050. besides, it might be time for square enix to remove this stupid tax since egi no longer exist '' even if it means lowering the fictitious potency.

As for the summoner's kit, phoenix and its healing are too situational and their uses cannot be chosen at the right time which makes their spells poor in many situations, the rest of the kit is more personal survival based. , because it has 2 shields of 20%, and a raid buff rather equivalent to that of the red mage, and the rez has become less easy to use than with the summoner of shb for several reasons / problem of the summoner's spell kit.

Also mention the quality of life of the two caster which is clearly advantageous for the red mage who does not have as much restriction as the summoner on his spell kit, such as the inability to use the team buff out of combat. / during summon, also for shields, it is also an element not to be taken lightly.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

Hmm, it's an interesting argument really.

RDM brings Embolden : Increases own magic damage dealt by 5% and damage dealt by nearby party members by 5%. Duration: 20s
SMN brings Searing Light : Searing Light Effect: Increases damage dealt by self and nearby party members by 3% Duration: 30s

RDM has Magick Barrier : Reduces magic damage taken by self and nearby party members by 10%, while increasing HP recovered by healing actions by 5%. Duration: 10s
SMN has Radiant Barrier : Radiant Aegis Effect: Creates a barrier around self that absorbs damage totaling 20% of your maximum HP. Duration: 30s

RDM brings Vercure : Restores target's HP. Cure Potency: 350
SMN brings Everlasting Flight : Gradually restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members. Cure Potency: 100 Duration: 21s
SMN also has Rekindle : Restores own or target party member's HP. Cure Potency: 400 Additional Effect: Grants Rekindle to target Duration: 30s
Rekindle Effect: Healing over time when HP falls below 75% or upon effect duration expiration Cure Potency: 200
Duration: 15s

Both can cast raise though RDM can do it more quickly. The thing about raise though is once you move past learning and up to farming its less of a requirement. If people are dropping like flies during say an EX Farm Group, something is wrong.

IMO, RDM and SMN are pretty much on par with one another in terms of utility.

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Summoner utility is locked behind specific phases. You can’t seriously tell me that rekindle is a real utility. You can use it once every 2 minutes for a 15 second window.

Pets are really still taxed even now? SE should really fix that at this point, that's dumb :/

And Rekindle isn't amazing but it's not terrible either. I'd prefer Phoenix's enkindle to be a deathflare like Bahamut's, but a 600 pot heal (or 480 assuming the pet tax still applies) isn't something to sniff at too hard. EDIT: Oh just saw Rekindle is a regen, so it's a 400 (flat pot) upfront heal with 1,000 pot in total regen (1,120 total potency applying the pet's stuff). All this on TOP of the 700 (560) potency regen on the whole party.

It's not super duper amazing or flexible, but that's a lot of cure potency in total.

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Originally Posted by SaberMaxwell

Pets are really still taxed even now? SE should really fix that at this point, that's dumb :/

And Rekindle isn't amazing but it's not terrible either. I'd prefer Phoenix's enkindle to be a deathflare like Bahamut's, but a 600 pot heal (or 480 assuming the pet tax still applies) isn't something to sniff at too hard. EDIT: Oh just saw Rekindle is a regen, so it's a 400 (flat pot) upfront heal with 1,000 pot in total regen (1,120 total potency applying the pet's stuff). All this on TOP of the 700 (560) potency regen on the whole party.

It's not super duper amazing or flexible, but that's a lot of cure potency in total.

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Its reasonable if you consider current SMN mobility is barely below physical ranged jobs. Add its utility and either has lower damage than RDM or it makes RDM once again obsolete and only useful for learning a fight then switched to BLM/SMN. RDM mobility even if its has been thankfully improved on EW is still quite overvalued

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Originally Posted by dinnertime

They're not. The only comparable thing about them is the Raise and party buff.

People have said this time and again, Phoenix's "utility" is too inconvenient to matter. No one is going to hold onto Phoenix for regens, especially when healers have a plethora of healing tools. It won't make a difference.

Magick Barrier and Radiant Aegis isn't even a fair comparison because Radiant Aegis only affects yourself, not the entire party. If you're going to do that then might as well add BLM's Manawall to the discussion.

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Healers have a plethora of healing tools and damage mitigation tools, RDM and SMN don't really need these skills anyway. Physical Ranged DPS got damage mitigation tools. None of it will make or break a fight, it's really just a bonus gimme.

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Originally Posted by Sequora

Summoner utility is locked behind specific phases. You can’t seriously tell me that rekindle is a real utility. You can use it once every 2 minutes for a 15 second window.

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Yea, it is. Design problems aside, Everlasting Flight and Enkindle are considered utility even though it's just luck that raid damage and Phoenix line up. By the by, you can only use Magick Barrier every 2 minutes but it's benefit is commanded rather than luck.

But whatever, if ya'll want to see RDM DPS 10% to 20% lower because of a barrier that's fine with me.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

But whatever, if ya'll want to see RDM DPS 10% to 20% lower because of a barrier that's fine with me.

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No one here is really agreeing that RDM needs a nerf.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

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what always bugged me is that why RDM cure is still pretty potent at mid to high level but for some reason smn cure (physick) is so underwhelming, like at level 60ish with 10K hp, a RDM cure can give you something like 1.5-2.5K hp heal, meanwhile smn cure only give you... what? 300? 400 hp heal? it so jarring.

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Originally Posted by gumas

what always bugged me is that why RDM cure is still pretty potent at mid to high level but for some reason smn cure (physick) is so underwhelming, like at level 60ish with 10K hp, a RDM cure can give you something like 1.5-2.5K hp heal, meanwhile smn cure only give you... what? 300? 400 hp heal? it so jarring.

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Perhaps because square enix likes to leave useless spells for several years and remove those that have some usefulness, several spells from different jobs were completely useless but have persisted for years, the summoner's physick is one of them except that he is useful that the first 20 levels and it's really a joke after. to let such a spell to this job apart from having a flavor of a fake healing , I find it really an insult to the summoner to leave this spell present on the kit after a full rework if they are not able to make the heal useful.

^and not helping with RDM double cast his heal potency is literally double lol

it always make me laugh everytime i see healer die and i ress them, then tank dying and ask "heal me hurry!!! while healer still in ress animation" and i heal him for like... 300 hp from his massive 15K hp. and he will like "oh... well least you try" lol