The WoL reawakened in Endwalker?

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

and we all know it's very likely we're going to get depowered of the Blessing and our powers of Azem.

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Why? /10char

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Originally Posted by redheadturk

Nothing is saying we won't still have the powers of our Seat, powers we pretty much had on our own merits anyway. It isn't like they can make us not Azem because that is who our soul originally was.

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We could lose the crystal, but I hope we don't.

I love reading these speculation/story posts.

For me, half of Shadowbringers was about memory. Who lives to pass on the memories, our ability to retain our memories, historical interpretations that do justice to the memories of ancestors...

And the main character and their "shhh" signal and their being shrouded in mystery, kind of like (I imagine) this wild-man, coyote/trickster, Father Christmas, boundary-testing/transcending, rule-breaker character... whoever we were in our past life...we don't remember. Before I even think about the WoL's own deeds, I think of that. That is already painful. Whatever the other Azem did in their last moments when they went to beat up the volcano -- knowing that would put the original Azem's story to rest, in my mind. But sometimes we have to settle and make our own interpretations. I don't even know that they were trying to be heroic. I mean, have you met any botanists or volcanologists? They are insane.

I love the story so much because it really makes you grapple between which is more important... "saving the world" and "choosing how to remember/interpret the world." They both are, and that's the point. I still think Hades was referring partially to "us" as in Azem/our character and whoever they were before (and acknowledging that they could carry out the legacy). And I still don't think we have been able to achieve that or make the "difficult decisions" he mentioned. Maybe even the other Azem couldn't have foreseen the decisions we will make!

None of us have control over how we are remembered. That's kind of life. I'll never be a parent so maybe I just don't have the same very human fear about this... once you get old like me and all your friends are dead it really hits home that someone can be a bigger influence than humanly possible and then, gone, and whatever stories are left become a game of Telephone. Or like a jpeg. And walking around you realize this isn't your generation anymore and not your values or the ideas of your generation. And that is okay.

Do you really think all the people we have met -- the proud parents in the Crystarium who say they'll tell their baby the WoL was there to meet them, the library children, Ga Bu, the Ondo father we helped in the Tempest, Gaia/Ryne -- are going to forget us entirely? I hope not! So many of them make a point that they are going to pass on the story about us to the next generation. It wasn't just the Ascians who needed someone to carry on their legacy... we have been meeting these people throughout the whole game. Not everyone is going to remember. It is a very beautiful/sublime thing, and I can't wait to see what they do to address this very human experience in an MMORPG format. What they have done so far has so much heart and soul in it.

I wouldn't want people to forget who the WoL was. Legacy players already had to deal with that crap during most of 2.0's story. My reasoning as to why is due to having played XI where only like two storylines had npcs you had already saved the world at least three times with where they remembered that crap. That was due to each expansion having no convective tissue. Sure, this would be only the 2nd or first time here depending on if your Legacy or not so it wouldn't be as bad. I'd also wouldn't want an actual restart either.

People forgetting that to rejoin completely would require

The death of Unukalhai, just after he finally found a new family on the first.

I neither think it’s likely they’ll do that, nor would I like it if they did.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

People forgetting that to rejoin completely would require

The death of Unukalhai, just after he finally found a new family on the first.

I neither think it’s likely they’ll do that, nor would I like it if they did.

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I don't think Unukalhai is a shard of Azem. It's implied that he and Nyelbert are shards of the same soul because Taynor, who worked with Nyelbert extensively says that Unu's aether feels 'familiar' and they were able to work together to open void portals very quickly.

My current theory is that Zenos's avatar is going to be Azem's 13th shard and we might steal it from him after beating him.

Beyond that it would require murdering people though, and even leaving that aside, we don't have the ability to get to any Shard but the First.

I feel that Ryu honestly has a point albeit it isn't quite perfect.

I agree it would be disappointing to see characters credit someone else with your deeds and actions but they don't necessarily need to rub your nose in it to remove the character from their affiliation with the WoL moniker.

What i'd like to see is a Season 2 where the WoL embarks on a brand new journey and of their previous support nets. Like, if we are voyaging to Meracydia or the New World it could explain why the WoL doesn't have the scions or the Eorzean Alliance backing them up. It wouldn't be insulting to the player because we'd be strangers in a strange land and if their past deeds ever came up it could even be fun to give the player the opportunity to be coy about it.

I just think a soft reset will inevitably be necessary if only because there will just be so much baggage and "power creep".

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Originally Posted by atheistcanuck

I don't think Unukalhai is a shard of Azem. It's implied that he and Nyelbert are shards of the same soul because Taynor, who worked with Nyelbert extensively says that Unu's aether feels 'familiar' and they were able to work together to open void portals very quickly. [/HB]

My current theory is that Zenos's avatar is going to be Azem's 13th shard and we might steal it from him after beating him.

Beyond that it would require murdering people though, and even leaving that aside, we don't have the ability to get to any Shard but the First.

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Ah that’s a good point. On the Zenos theory, the issue I keep coming to is the fact that Zenos, if he is the 13th shard, should not be strong enough to match the Warrior of Light, given he wouldn’t have the benefit of 7 rejoined souls. It’s possible he is empowered by other means, but as it stands there’s a big piece missing.

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Originally Posted by EaraGrace

Ah that’s a good point. On the Zenos theory, the issue I keep coming to is the fact that Zenos, if he is the 13th shard, should not be strong enough to match the Warrior of Light, given he wouldn’t have the benefit of 7 rejoined souls. It’s possible he is empowered by other means, but as it stands there’s a big piece missing.

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no you misunderstand me, the idea is since Zenos is going to be a Reaper in EW his voidsent avatar will be the shard of Azem from the 13th.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

It wouldn't be taking a page out of that book. Wherever we go next, we won't have all the old faces we're used to odds are, we'll be seeing new people, creating a new team, etc. Crafting a new legend for ourselves, something we can't do with the old baggage. We're still going to have Cid and the Garlond Ironworks, we're still gonna see Rowena (she won't let her biggest moneymaker disappear), we're still likely to have a few Scion friends tag along (likely Alisaie and Tataru). But again, a lot of people will not remember us as the WoL, but still associate us with things we did that weren't beyond the normal person's means, such as helping end the war in Ishgard (but we won't have been the one who killed Thordon in their minds), freeing Bozja (we were just a soldier there), helping free Ala Mhigo (but we weren't the one who killed Zenos or Shinryu in their memories), etc.

The job trainers will remember us as an individual, that random person you got a cat out of a tree for will remember you doing it, etc. But the big gigantic things, namely world saving and primal slaying, you will not be remembered for. This will not result in us being a cog in the wheel, considering again, people will remember the more down to earth things we did. So us helping fight through the Vault? Will be remembered. Us fighting through Ala Mhigo to pave a path to Zenos? Remembered. Us pushing through Doma Castle? Remembered. But us killing Thordon? Wasn't us, was the WoL. Us killing Zenos and Shinryu? Wasn't us, was the WoL.

That is not a cog in the wheel, as all the rulers will still recognize what we did, still know us as an individual. The people will still know us. However the WoL's godlike feats will be disconnected from us in their memories. In their memories, they'd see us WITH the WoL clearing the path. They'd see us as an individual who was friends with the WoL and knew them. But they'd not see us as the WoL. I hope that cleared up what I was thinking, anyway.

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That would make me quit the game. Half the fun of FFXIV is doing some random low level quest and having it mentioned 100 hours later. Removing that removes most of the attachment I would think most people have with the game even if they dont really recognize that attachment.