(Endwalker) Summoner goes into the right direction but i'd like to see permanent pets

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

No. Just imagine the summoner job action trailer. But instead of the summoner casting the wind, fire and earth spells it'd be the specific semi-permanent summon in the current rotation.
thats about it. No rework of skills, its more a matter of animations and keeping the feel and essence of playing a FF summoner.

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if you read my post, I actually said that. a rework of summoner animations, and the pet animations from the ground up. I said zero about a skill rework.

its great that they decided to change summoner in Endwalker, I do not see them making a drastic change to the summoner animations without having to rework... everyone's.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

And then you have to show me even one Final Fantasy title where the summoner job is casting wind, fire and earth spell by his own... and even worse: is attacking with his bare fists like a monk in melee range.
So i actually "dont know, where you get that"

So .... now you.

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Sorry to jump back to this post but Rydia in FFIV does exactly that (besides summon magic she also initially has access to White and Black magic spells, but after her... age up.... she inexplicably loses access to the White magic strangely, but still has Black Magic). Really, any FF game which doesn't use a variation of the Job system and instead has characters with unique abilities and summon spells can be freely equipped to all characters can do this easily.

And you can have summoners attack with bare fists in many games, you could indeed do that in FF Tactics, and titles with no Job system but unqiue abilities could equip summon magic freely could have this effect, like Tifa in FFVII or Zell in FFVIII.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

Well there are actually more Titles where the summons are persistent in the last decade or 20 years. Final Fantasy X, Final Fantasy XI Online, Final Fantasy XII, Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy Type-0 and Final Fantasy VII Remake.
And in my opinion these are also the better systems than having a "fire and forget" animation and calling it "summoner".

Additionally we literally dont have any petclass in this MMORPG... but many casters and melee fighters.
Secondly it would make the summoner distinct from other casters such as red mage or white mage who are already casting wind and fire and earth spells..

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This view of summon magic is very incomplete, the FF series has been going since 1987, and Micah was completely right in saying that traditionally for the first nine titles in the series summon magic is simply a fancy animation that shows up, does it's big impressive attack and then disappears (some FF titles therefore placed restrictions on how many times a summon could be cast or how many you could equip).

Even FFVII (the original PS1 version and the pre-Remake Compilation titles I mean, not the Remake) just has summon materia as a fancy attack that does it's thing and then disappears with no input from the player (and the ultimate expression of that was in FFVII Crisis Core where summon spell animations were actually over-the-top FMV sequences). Really, FFX started this whole stupid 'summons as a pet you command' thing, possibly inspired by the Pokemon craze, and FFXI solidified it, and, it just doesn't work in an MMO environment, let alone a single-player game, as the continued issues ACN/SMN/SCH faces here in FFXIV show only too well.

Really, at this point, I'd like to just see the whole pet angle for ACN/SMN/SCH here in FFXIV scrapped and replaced with the old-style 'summon spell as an animation and then disappears' concept, as it would solve much of the lingering issues that continues to dog (pun intended) pet classes.

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

And then you have to show me even one Final Fantasy title where the summoner job is casting wind, fire and earth spell by his own... and even worse: is attacking with his bare fists like a monk in melee range.
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Not the person you were addressing, but:

• Rydia from FF4. She is a Summoner who can cast Fire, Wind, and Earth spells be herself (Fire 1 through 3, Tornado, and Quake). Could only use Rods and Whips.
• In FFV you can set the second ability slot to allow Summoners to attack like a Monk or cast spells that happen to be Fire, Wind, or Earth base.
• Summoner from Final Fantasy Tactics can be made to use bare fists to attack like a Monk in melee range and cast wind, fire, and earth spells on their own.
• In FFXI, Summoners could set their subjob to do some of those things... poorly (even as /SCH).

That's four games right there with dedicated summoner jobs or persons who were designated as a summoner and could do those things you have described.

By the way, what you were describing in your OP was Puppetmaster from FFXI.

• There was no "bending" by the user, but you could have three Maneuvers up at once. Each Maneuver was elementally aligned and allowed the attachments on the Automaton to be activate or be enhanced.
• Puppetmaster also have Martial Arts trait for melee combat.
• Although no innate magic casting by the Puppetmaster, but with Puppetmaster being able to equip caster gear and equip a caster subjob (/SCH mainly), you could be a magic caster PUP and be slightly effective at it. This is not considering the three automaton casting heads and body.

Which, as a Puppetmaster main from FFXI, I do not want it in FF14. SE would not make it the same Puppetmaster, but some knock-off version to fit within the Holy Trinity or make it a limited job.

Final Fantasy is not Avatar. I don't need kung fu and tai chi in my Summoner, thanks.

If you want bending, ask for geomancer.

And maybe egi glamours can bring what you're looking for.


Don't you dare touch my carbuncle tho.

I want a summon to cast its ultimate attack and then disappear like in the old final fantasy games.

The problem is that the ultimate attacks of garuda, titan and ifrit are not as good as in old final fantasy games. They just do a raid-wide aoe instead of ifrit erupting out of the ground and dashing, arriving on a comet, titan raising earth up and that sort of thing.

What makes up for this is that after the summon disappears, the attacks the summoner does resemble these actions more, like earth erupting from the ground and ifrit's dash.

(I recall them clarifying that carbuncle can be made to look like any of them?)

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Originally Posted by Tonkra

I didnt mean super jumps like the MNK is doing

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Mnk only has one animation that is like a "super jump". are you thinking of dragoon?
The lyse picture you posted from the stormblood trailer actually shows off a lot of ingame mnk animations, like the fist stances, demolish, form shift etc,.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

I want a summon to cast its ultimate attack and then disappear like in the old final fantasy games.

The problem is that the ultimate attacks of garuda, titan and ifrit are not as good as in old final fantasy games. They just do a raid-wide aoe instead of ifrit erupting out of the ground and dashing, arriving on a comet, titan raising earth up and that sort of thing.

What makes up for this is that after the summon disappears, the attacks the summoner does resemble these actions more, like earth erupting from the ground and ifrit's dash.

(I recall them clarifying that carbuncle can be made to look like any of them?)

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I really do hope we can Egi glamour the Carbuncle into those new models. I think we will be disappointed though. I mean the Summons can be resized down to absurdly small proportions so it shouldn't be impossible.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

The problem is that the ultimate attacks of garuda, titan and ifrit are not as good as in old final fantasy games. They just do a raid-wide aoe instead of ifrit erupting out of the ground and dashing, arriving on a comet, titan raising earth up and that sort of thing.

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This is a multiplayer game with real time combat.

I do not want to have a full rdm lb3 every 5ish gcds in the middle of raid.

God, it would make alliance raids impossible.

I think bending animations would look weird on SMN given they're holding a book. Bending animations are also just...martial arts stuff, and we already have monk. I think adding those animations to SMN would just be awkward.