Hamlet Defense, more RNG? Discouraging.

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Originally Posted by smithdag

Well, you know what; If there is no immersive story to this game, ain't never been one, won't be one until 2.0 then winning and looting is all we got! What's the point of running dungeons multiple times if their aint a payoff to it.

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Hanging out with friends/meeting new people, helping new players/helping people do leves/quest/grind in general, Exploring more of Eorzea by yourself or with other people..

The story is more 'immersive' than any other MMORPG :)

I don't see the need for people to rush and get all the gear.. When you have all that gear, you're going to have nothing else to do.. and you'll most likely start complaining about nothing to do, and how boring everything is.

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Originally Posted by Yellow

Socialising in game, helping new players, exploring more of Eorzea, talking to people in game.

The story is more 'immersive' than any other MMORPG :)

I don't see the need for people to rush and get all the gear.. When you have all that gear, you're going to have nothing else to do.. and you'll most likely start complaining about nothing to do, and how boring everything is.

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Analyze your logic there. You just said you don't see a need for people to rush and get the gear because once they do get it there will be nothing left to do. So you will at least admit then that getting gear is ALL THERE IS TO DO IN THIS GAME. Socialize and chat in game?! SE sure has gone through a lot of trouble to reinvent the chat program.

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Originally Posted by Yellow

I don't see the need for people to rush and get all the gear.. When you have all that gear, you're going to have nothing else to do.. and you'll most likely start complaining about nothing to do, and how boring everything is.

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Or you can try to get said gear and get completely burnt out because the drop rates are ridiculous and completely dependant on luck.

Two sides to ever coin as they say.

Campaign in XI did this really well made it take long enough to get notes to get gear and kept adding new pieces. Gonna be ifrit all over again. Some stupid DoL/H gear drops no one can use it /toss...

I can't speak for Hamlet Defense, but Garuda is a step in the right direction. Most people will be able to 7/7 Garuda by their 100th kill, assuming they only get 2 distinct drops in that time (which seems conservative based on what I've seen so far). If you really want, you can get the 1 weapon you want the most in 20 kills just by yourself or 2.5 kills if tokens are pooled from friends. This is vastly less grind than we went through on Ifrit/Moogle.

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Originally Posted by smithdag

Analyze your logic there. You just said you don't see a need for people to rush and get the gear because once they do get it there will be nothing left to do. So you will at least admit then that getting gear is ALL THERE IS TO DO IN THIS GAME. Socialize and chat in game?! SE sure has gone through a lot of trouble to reinvent the chat program.

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Well you left out helping new players too! Gear isn't all that matters.. I had that mentality when I played WoW and Guild Wars.. and when I got to where I wanted the game had nothing for me.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

Or you can try to get said gear and get completely burnt out because the drop rates are ridiculous and completely dependant on luck.

Two sides to ever coin as they say.

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Never said I was against them changing the drop rate / system (I actually think only the weapons should drop o-o)

~ But there's more to the game than getting gear.. =)

What you are forgetting is the scores, SE must have added the scores at the end of hamlet for a reason other than competition, what if the scores are tied into the drops algorithm, we already know up to 9999 we get one drop and more than 10k we get 2, now what if a higher score also influances drop rate.

We have only got to a level 2 hamlet up to now, for level 5 we could be seeing alot higher scores than we are now, and only then will we know this for certain.

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Originally Posted by Yellow

Never said I was against them changing the drop rate / system (I actually think only the weapons should drop o-o)

~ But there's more to the game than getting gear.. =)

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You want them to remove tokens completely? .. lol ... ok then!
Strangely I want the exact opposite and want the removal of weapons drops and just keep tokens.

Reason for playing the majority of MMO's is getting sexy loot, this isn't an offline RPG where story trumps all, granted SE are better at the story telling than other MMO's but currently even with the looming threat of the Umbral Age the story is pretty sub par.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

we already know up to 9999 we get one drop and more than 10k we get 2, now what if a higher score also influances drop rate.

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I've only completed it once but we got 13k and got no unique drops.

Where is the proof to suggest what you posted above.

Agree with you that the score must have some effect on loot drops although I'm not sure those numbers are accurate :P

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Originally Posted by Jinko

I've only completed it once but we got 13k and got no unique drops.

Where is the proof to suggest what you posted above.

Agree with you that the score must have some effect on loot drops although I'm not sure those numbers are accurate :P

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The drops aren't guaranteed to be Militia gear. Just like Primals it can also be Dark Matter, which happens most of the time. The number of drops is pretty consistent from what I've seen though, so it seems that that theory is correct. Rewards do have multiple factors that affect them like Supply Rating, score and being in the top 20 contributors.

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Originally Posted by Endemerrin

On the contrary, you make the RNG low and it drives away your dedicated endgame players because they get fed up with getting absolutely no reward for all their effort - while others groups might be having significant luck and receive ten times the amount of loot you've received for ten times less work.

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If you look over the history of MMORPGs, particularly 1st and 2nd gen MMORPGs, you'll find that to simply not be the case. Far from it. People play these MMOs for years despite having RNG, low drop rates and the like.

The problem with topics like these, and arguments like yours in particular, Endemerrin, is that they're made through tunnel-vision goggles and judge every situation in isolation instead of considering them as part of a bigger picture. No one sticks with a game, or leaves a game simply due to "this one issue" or "that one feature". It's not that absolute. It's a collection of things that keeps people playing, or pushes them away.

For just one example, Final Fantasy XI. They maintained a healthy, very loyal and dedicated player base who stuck with the game for 7 or more years, and XI was extremely dependent on RNG based rewards. More than that, it was based on RNG, on top of rare spawns with long periods of time between spawn windows. Still, people hung around, even well after MMO's like WoW and its ilk started popularizing the "casual friendly" route where everything comes easier and faster.

And the reason isn't because "all people really love RNG content", although some actually don't mind it at all because they enjoy the activity itself and it isn't about the reward for them. It's because on the whole, RNG was just one wart of several on a MMO experience that also had many benefits and things they enjoyed. The good balanced out the bad.

FFXIV has been RNG based for how long now? People have been stating "SE if you don't fix this NOW! people will leave!" for how long? I've seen this topic come up after every new Primal or other content that's implemented. And every time, those people are still around to repeat it for the next time around. Guaranteed they'll still be around for the next one as well.

Why? Not because they're masochists. It's because, as annoying as the RNG or low-drop rates are to people, there's still enough else about the game they enjoy that they'll continue playing. There are people on these forums right now that I've seen complaining about the same things going back for months. They've been making that threat that they and others will quit if SE doesn't do what they want. And yet they're still here. Still playing, and still making that threat. They'll be here months from now doing it as well, guaranteed.

Why will they still be here? Because despite the issues they make out to be "show-stoppers" for them, there's enough about the game they enjoy and that keeps them playing.

Some people just like to hear themselves talk, they love to be "right", and they love to use hyperbole or absolutes to make their arguments seem bigger or more important than they are.