FC owning 12 plots

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Because SE's rules allowed for these items to be collected, and someone decided it would be fun to collect them. It's literally as simple as that.

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Or rather SE didn't make the system airtight enough and people exploited a weak system to get more housing than intended.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

SE can't go back and take rewards away.

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Housing =/= rewards

All shell FCs should have their housing stripped full stop, and anyone saying otherwise is advocating for this malevolent display of greed is only advocating for this entire horrendous housing situation to continue.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

That would destroy subscriber's faith in them.

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Hardly, it'd be no different than seeing a bunch of idiots banned over RMT, so please don't delude yourself otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

If they will delete houses, we need to be worried that they will remove feast rewards earned on alts, or ishgard titles earned on alts. You ground out 'Saint' on two characters? Sorry, that's no fair, you get to keep one and the 'leftover' goes to the next guy down the line. It wouldn't be fair to do THAT retroactively, and the same is true of housing. I have friends who would undoubtedly quit if they lost their alt's houses.

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Again, housing =/= reward. Drop it with the FUD already... it shows your argument holds zero water because if that's all you've got to lean on, its naught more than an acknowledgement that the position is wholly immoral and an admission that it's an exploitation of the rule set.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Again, housing =/= reward. Drop it with the FUD already... it shows your argument holds zero water because if that's all you've got to lean on, its naught more than an acknowledgement that the position is wholly immoral and an admission that it's an exploitation of the rule set.

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Given your history, you'd think you know that housing started off as something exclusive for FCs only and astronomically priced.

It's players who whined about wanting personals and lowering the price for something that is limited in supply.

Then of course the botters/scalpers came along.

Players who asked for that retarded placard camping system we have now.

The real solution would be either drastically increase the supply of ward houses or implement fully instanced housing alongside the existing systems. But that would cost SE a lot of money and housing is not a priority for SE.

And lol, you're talking about morals in an MMORPG; a genre where one of the features is defined by useless accumulation.

The TOS allows for ownership of multiple FC houses and this is something that can be checked with GMs or through support.

If you and other players feel strongly about this, you can contact SE's support or the GMs and report.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

It's players who whined about wanting personals and lowering the price for something that is limited in supply.

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It's one of those "seemed like a good idea at the time" things.... but...

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

The real solution would be either drastically increase the supply of ward houses or implement fully instanced housing alongside the existing systems. But that would cost SE a lot of money and housing is not a priority for SE.

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While I wouldn't be surprised if this is a cultural differences thing (as in it makes more sense in the context of the Japanese culture than it does in an American one), I think that's what apartments were supposed to be... but like most things in this system they need work.

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Originally Posted by TwistedTea

The TOS allows for ownership of multiple FC houses and this is something that can be checked with GMs or through support.

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The FC system needs to be tweaked as it's currently too lose... but much of that discussion needs to happen after workshop and gardening functionality is made generally available to players and not FC exclusive. Either way, the way FFXIV works it's pretty clear that it's designed with the intention that each player is (on average) only going to have a single character (which explains why the oversight with the personal houses and ports occurred). So following from that, it's pretty obvious that a single account was never intended to control multiple FCs. Tbh, the entire line of reasoning is a bit like using a dupe exploit or RMT and going "it's perfectly fine because I haven't been banned!".

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Housing =/= rewards

All shell FCs should have their housing stripped full stop, and anyone saying otherwise is advocating for this malevolent display of greed is only advocating for this entire horrendous housing situation to continue.


Again, housing =/= reward. Drop it with the FUD already... it shows your argument holds zero water because if that's all you've got to lean on, its naught more than an acknowledgement that the position is wholly immoral and an admission that it's an exploitation of the rule set.

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I feel like your arguing semantics. But SE isn't going to take anything away from a player unless they broke the rules (TOS). For better or worse that isn't the case and most likely won't happen. If they change the rules again anyone with multiple properties will get grandfathered in again.

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Originally Posted by Kniteroad

I feel like your arguing semantics. But SE isn't going to take anything away from a player unless they broke the rules (TOS). For better or worse that isn't the case and most likely won't happen. If they change the rules again anyone with multiple properties will get grandfathered in again.

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If an exploit has occurred, and at some point in the future the rules change to prevent the exploit, then the gains from the exploit should also be removed. Otherwise all SE'd be doing is promote an "exploit early and exploit often" mindset in the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

If an exploit has occurred, and at some point in the future the rules change to prevent the exploit, then the gains from the exploit should also be removed. Otherwise all SE'd be doing is promote an "exploit early and exploit often" mindset in the playerbase.

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I looked up the definition of "exploit" and the most applicable definition was:

A program or system designed to take advantage of a particular error or security vulnerability in computers or networks.

Except that's not correct in this case. Square Enix still allows any standard account to buy 8 FC houses on the same world by using 8 different characters. You can do this right now and no tricks are needed. You just need to meet the usual requirement of the FC being rank 6 or higher and have 4 people in the FC at the time of purchase.

Except for a single week at the end of January 2018*, FC housing has always been unrestricted. Because SE haven't changed the purchase of FC houses for well over 3 years, it implies it's working as intended for them.

Interestingly they recently updated the housing website although I'm not really sure what they're trying to say, but to me it suggests they are acknowledging the housing website no longer reflects the in-game rules (which we've known for 3+ years!)

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Temporary Changes to Purchasing Land

* Adjustments have been made to this section of the purchasing guide. Please note, however, there have been no changes to the in-game housing system. (20/8/2021)

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* Patch 4.2 added the restriction to allow only 1 personal and 1 FC house per service account, per world, but the FC restriction was removed only a week later.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

A program or system designed to take advantage of a particular error or security vulnerability in computers or networks.

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You and I both know that an exploit (in gaming terms) means getting a gain (or advantage) through utilizing a system in an unexpected (and often unintended) manner that is later fixed to prevent the acquisition of that gain. More often than not, this gets patched within a month of finding (at least it should), sometimes it takes years.

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Originally Posted by worldofneil

Interestingly they recently updated the housing website although I'm not really sure what they're trying to say, but to me it suggests they are acknowledging the housing website no longer reflects the in-game rules (which we've known for 3+ years!)

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What I find interesting is this line:

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You may only purchase and maintain one private plot and one free company plot per World per service account.

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That is also how I have understood SE's intent with housing. That's also about the fairest way to run it IMO.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Or rather SE didn't make the system airtight enough and people exploited a weak system to get more housing than intended.

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Owning a house on your alt is as much exploiting as having a Saint of The Firmament title on your alt is exploiting. Which is to say, it's not exploiting. It's playing the game.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Housing =/= rewards

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What word would you use to describe the items we receive in-game as a reward for our time spent and effort put forth?

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Originally Posted by Catstab

Owning a house on your alt is as much exploiting as having a Saint of The Firmament title on your alt is exploiting.

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That's a false equivalency since there are infinite titles and finite properties.

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Originally Posted by Catstab

What word would you use to describe the items we receive in-game as a reward for our time spent and effort put forth?

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We don't get rewards. We get items, gil, titles, and XP in an equitable trade for our time.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

You and I both know that an exploit (in gaming terms) means getting a gain (or advantage) through utilizing a system in an unexpected (and often unintended) manner that is later fixed to prevent the acquisition of that gain. More often than not, this gets patched within a month of finding (at least it should), sometimes it takes years.

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Please tell me one time that SE has taken years to fix an exploit? Things like people being able to friend their alts (happened twice now) or the whole Ungarmax thing were fixed in days (admittedly Ungarmax was reported months before, but wasn't actually fixed until it became widely know, but that was still months, not years).

The only time I can recall SE intentionally taking a while to fix something not working as intended was Blue Mage and when people were solo levelling it by quickly changing job to get the exp on Blue Mage. They even specifically addressed this and said how they wouldn't be able to fix it within a reason timeframe and therefore wouldn't be taking action against anyone using that method, even though they were prefer they didn't. This was also fixed within months (4.5 to 5.0), not years.

But FC housing? It was listed under temporary changes and it was a temporary change. They've never mentioned it since January 2018 and it's been over *3* years.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

What I find interesting is this line:

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You may only purchase and maintain one private plot and one free company plot per World per service account.

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Yes, on a webpage that isn't even on the main page of the Lodestone (you have to click Play Guide first, where as the main page has lots of links to other mini sites).

It's also on a webpage that isn't even referenced in the game, where you actually buy the house.

If SE wanted you to enforce 1 FC house per service account, per world, they would. At the very least they'd point you to the housing guide page or actually say something in-game about how it's only intended for you to have one FC house... but they don't.

So you can rage at this FC who owns 12 plots or whatever, but for all you know they haven't even seen that webpage or even been made aware that at one (very brief) time, there was a limitation. They went the buy the house, the game let them.

I know you want to believe the site because it says what you want it to say, but clearly it's out of date and this is all working as intended.

Maybe housing on this game will always be a problem, but you cannot go after the players that earned something fairly using the rules of the game (which are still the rules of the game...)

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

That's a false equivalency since there are infinite titles and finite properties.

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That's not true I'm afraid.

Saint of the Firmament was limited to the top 12 on each crafter/gathering profession (per server) and Beatus of the Firmament was the top 100. You only had 3 (or 4?) tries to get this and now it's gone for good.