Tired of my Dragoon looking like she got the boot from the Tanks Only Society

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

The thread was less about them being armored than the fact that we're the fifth freaking class using a shared appearance. It's ridiculous. I get being one of the 4 tanks and winding up in identical sets, but saddling dragoons with the same appearance as the those four is just lazy.

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Because designs are shared out by role, not class.

There are almost always three designs per set, spread out 2/2/3 across the seven roles, and if dragoon doesn't share the tank design then someone else has to. That tends to be aiming, all three variations of which don't appreciate heavy armour.

maiming gear is the most defensive set not designed specifically for tanking so it does make sense that it looks that way too

glamour exists for a reason as well if you want a look outside of what the class standard is

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

Actually DRG normally had medium armor in most games. It was more unusual for them to wear heavy armor like tank classes. Typically most games had them primarily wearing things like scale mail, splint mail, light half plate, etc where they could still maintain mobility. Part of the misconception here is people seem to think anything not made of cloth or leather is immediately classified as heavy armor or assume it's heavy armor because most tanks can wear medium armor as well.

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Wha?

FF3 DRG used heavy armor sets, up to and including the crystal armor sets.
FF4 Kain used the heavy armor sets. His capstone literally had a Dragon armor set that only he and Cecil (and technically Cid, who also wore heavier armor) could wear.
FF5 DRG used every heavy armor set as well.
FF6 Edgar was one of the characters who would wear the heavier sets of armor.
FF9 while Freya's model doesn't have heavy armor, her equipment selection was shared with Steiner and both used heavy armor.
FF11 DRGs used both medium armor and heavy armor.
FF14 DRGs use heavier armor.
FFT "armor" sets included Dragoons, as opposed to clothing (medium/light) and robes (mage) that both excluded them.
FFTA had the same situation - Dragoons were on the heavy armor, but were not on clothing (which included things like Adamant Vest, etc) or robes.

I'm not against more options than the bulkier DRG armor we have now, for sure, but to say they used mostly medium armor is actually incorrect.

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Originally Posted by Floortank

I love the DRG AF, but I think anything like it should be specific to Dragoons, not Maiming.

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You don't need to worry. All AF sets are job specific.

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Originally Posted by TeraRamis

I don't really feel like monk/sam are that different thematically at all, provided that your given monk is of the eastern variety.

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Imagine lumping sam and monk together just because they're "eastern"....

By your logic, tank (knight) and dragoon are not that different thematically since they're western coded.

I'm sure drg will get all the DRK hand me downs come next xpac with reaper joining its loot table, so if you want more edgelord looking black armor you're in luck, but if you want class fantasy then thats still TBD, personally i haven't been a fan of any of the armor sets from SB, i get that they wanted to capture the worlds style versus our classes fantasy but I'm tired of looking like the three musketeers, i want something that pops and makes you say "Wow, now thats a *Insert class here*"

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Originally Posted by Zeich

Wha?

FF3 DRG used heavy armor sets, up to and including the crystal armor sets.
FF4 Kain used the heavy armor sets. His capstone literally had a Dragon armor set that only he and Cecil (and technically Cid, who also wore heavier armor) could wear.
FF5 DRG used every heavy armor set as well.
FF6 Edgar was one of the characters who would wear the heavier sets of armor.
FF9 while Freya's model doesn't have heavy armor, her equipment selection was shared with Steiner and both used heavy armor.
FF11 DRGs used both medium armor and heavy armor.
FF14 DRGs use heavier armor.
FFT "armor" sets included Dragoons, as opposed to clothing (medium/light) and robes (mage) that both excluded them.
FFTA had the same situation - Dragoons were on the heavy armor, but were not on clothing (which included things like Adamant Vest, etc) or robes.

I'm not against more options than the bulkier DRG armor we have now, for sure, but to say they used mostly medium armor is actually incorrect.

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FF11 DRG's most definitely did not wear heavy armor. The actual heavy armors were specific to WAR/PLD/DRK. DRG shared the ability however to wear medium armor which was also usable by tanks and also in that game by SAM. A number of the earlier games in the series you refer do didn't have a real distiction between medium and heavy armor or class/character distinctions and visuals to illustrate differences in armor types out side of having metal and not having metal, DRG wasn't limited to wearing cloth and leather. If anything in FF6 Edgar was a Mechanist, not a DRG. Mog was a Dancer, not a DRG. They just happen to be able to equip a spear or lance. Approximating the "jobs" of the characters in that title was a determination made primarily on their battle commands. Tactics being a strategy series actually changed the DRG role a bit to fit it's style of gameplay slightly to serve as a sort of tank/DPS hybrid. However like the early FF titles I mentioned the tactics series lacks a distinction between medium and heavy armor and just simply lumps them together as "metal" armor

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

FF11 DRG's most definitely did not wear heavy armor. The actual heavy armors were specific to WAR/PLD/DRK. DRG shared the ability however to wear medium armor which was also usable by tanks and also in that game by SAM. A number of the earlier games in the series you refer do didn't have a real distiction between medium and heavy armor or class/character distinctions and visuals to illustrate differences in armor types out side of having metal and not having metal, DRG wasn't limited to wearing cloth and leather. If anything in FF6 Edgar was a Mechanist, not a DRG. Mog was a Dancer, not a DRG. They just happen to be able to equip a spear or lance. Approximating the "jobs" of the characters in that title was a determination made primarily on their battle commands. Tactics being a strategy series actually changed the DRG role a bit to fit it's style of gameplay slightly to serve as a sort of tank/DPS hybrid. However like the early FF titles I mentioned the tactics series lacks a distinction between medium and heavy armor and just simply lumps them together as "metal" armor

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While I'll admit I jumped a little on XI, they traditionally -did- get a lot of heavy armors. Ares' set from Salvage (WAR PLD DRK DRG), the Hrafn/Huginn and Emicho/+1 sets from Abjurations (WAR PLD DRK DRG BST), and heck, have you seen any of their three AF sets, which are -definitely- on the heavier side than "medium" armor?

Also your argument against heavy/medium in earlier games doesn't hold water when they were literally "armor" and limited to classes that are traditionally wearing heavier armor - Dark Knight, Knight, Viking, Warrior in FF3, for example. There were still technically "lighter" armor options that could be worn by Red Mage, for example, say the Flame Mail or Ice Armor that would still be "armor" but equippable by more jobs such as RDM, THF, and even RNG. So they do differentiate in a manner of speaking in FF3.

In FF4 you are divided between your "heavy" armor users (Cecil, Kain, Cid), "light" armor users (Edge, Yang) and mages. You're right that there's no medium to "differentiate" between, but that weighs as strongly against your argument for medium on DRG. If anything, it indicates "hey, Dragoon wears armor" not "hey, Dragoon should wear medium armor!"

If you want to quibble about Edgar and Mog in FF6, that's fine, but they're the closest dragoon equivalents given that they are the only jobs able to equip spears and spears still get the jump bonus. They're not pure dragoons, but without a Merit Award they are the only two who are able to achieve the same idea of a dragoon. Still not an argument for medium armor even if we sweep it off the table.

You can argue about earlier games but again, the game is very distinct on armor jobs - Knights, Dragoons, Samurai, Dark Knights, and a few unique jobs unless you specifically have the skill for equipping armor. I see nothing that would have "light armor" in any of those, so Dragoon still falls easily within the realm of heavy armor.

So aside from your FF11 reference, I'm still not seeing anything for Dragoons "traditionally" wearing medium armor. Models only mean so much (see Freya, who still wears heavy armor despite model), so throwing Cid or Kimahri in there doesn't do much when both have armor that is literally just a bangle of some kind.

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Originally Posted by RitsukoSonoda

FF11 DRG's most definitely did not wear heavy armor.

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Wrong~!

Depending on when you played, anyway. For the early years of the game it is most definietly true that DRG was barred from platemails and even some of the heavy chainmails, like the Byrnie or the Haubergeon.

Later in the game's life, however, the devs finaly figured out that... hey... this job we have that in Japanese is, "Dragon Knight" should probably be able to wear heavy armor.

The first heavy armor that I can recall it being on is the Fourth Division Brunne, which is a higher level, higher stats version of the Iron Plate set from level 40. The level 40 set's body piece is literally, "Breastplate" and it is sheer iron/steel plate only available to WAR/DRK/PLD. The Fourth Division Brunne is the same exact aesthetic and construction but has DRG added to the wear list.

Another similar piece added even before the Fourth Division Brunne is the Aurum Cuirass. A banana colored version of the Iron Musketeer plate armor(WAR/PLD/DRK), it's available for wearing by DRG. It was also put on the Ares set and its constituent armors, all of which are heavy plate armors. Ares itself is a very ornate, slim heavy armor with shoulder spikes made out of very dense khroma ore > Imperial Wootz. In FFXIV its set is redone first as the Wootz i110 set specifically for DRG at level 50, and then as the Titanium Fending set at level 54.

Later on in the Abyssea age, they finally allowed DRG onto its first Haubergeon/berk variety on the Perle Hauberk, a chainmail/brigandine style coat with plated pauldrons shingled down the arms.

I'd go on, but you get the idea.

I will say though, that initially the idea was they were trying to balance DRG and over compensated, the idea being that because of its pet wyvern it shouldn't be allowed on armor pieces that enhanced attack and other offensive traits in the same way as jobs that didn't have such a powerful pet.

It got altered overtime, having its 2hr changed from Call Wyvern to Spirit Surge in addition to being allowed to wear these armors.

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medium/heavy armour

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Here in FFXIV, prior to level 50 where the armour isn't divided into strict roles yet and are effectively tiered by weight, dragoon is THE medium armour user. Things that are restricted from use by the other DoW classes yet (sometimes arbitrarily) apparently not as heavy as the gear that is strictly tank-only. At periods in the levelling process their best gear is also the best gear for tanks, including most of the gear dropped from dungeons. And of course, since day 1 it's been leading up to the very armoured Drachen Mail.