Tanks Pulling Trains (Who's Wrong?)

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Originally Posted by Reiryuu

I want to say I've seen him [G'raha] use holy a few times as well, but I am not too clear on that.

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He does, but just as Aero III, it's rare, and he does it on bosses (single target) too...

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Originally Posted by ninninin

I think Trust tank don't do wall to wall pull am I correct?

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Trust tanks only aggro things that are 1. close enough to charge in and 2. aggro you. But even then, they target mobs one after another, so e.g. if one of the aggro'ed mobs on you is standing still and casting while the rest is chasing you, the trust tank might want to aggro that one special mob first before taking the rest off of you (which might result in your death).
So, yes, they don't pull wall to wall, you have to bring "the other wall" to them.

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Originally Posted by ninninin

I think Trust tank don't do wall to wall pull am I correct? But regardless. Tank died because whm did not spam holy is hardly the case. Since Holy can only stun for 3 times. If Tank died in a trash pull it would because the damage taken per second exceeded the hp restored per second and manage to deplete their hp bar to 0.

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No the Trust tank didn't do big pulls. I had to run ahead and grab the second pack and train him with it.

I just ran the dungeon again with real people and it was way smoother. I don't know what kind of gear the previous one had, but this one was full Augmented Scaevan. He/she didn't really even come close to dying and I could weave Holy's + other DPS. I have screenshots of the run if anyone really wants to see it.

I'm guessing the previous one just stood in literally everything or had no gear. That said I'm still 100% open for suggestions and improvements.

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Originally Posted by blue_skies

No the Trust tank didn't do big pulls. I had to run ahead and grab the second pack and train him with it.

I just ran the dungeon again with real people and it was way smoother. I don't know what kind of gear the previous one had, but this one was full Augmented Scaevan. He/she didn't really even come close to dying and I could weave Holy's + other DPS. I have screenshots of the run if anyone really wants to see it.

I'm guessing the previous one just stood in literally everything or had no gear. That said I'm still 100% open for suggestions and improvements.

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Trust tanks don't pull. They take any aggro you have. They also don't give you grief if you die.
In line with my first post, we are in a spot right now. New tanks, old tanks, alt tanks. I've seen Tanks in Sohm Al with i90 chests. I've seen 520 tanks in Brayflox and you know it when you start healing.

blue_skies, the only error you did here is to give importance to random pugs. Do what you think is appropriate to fulfil your job and ignore whining people. Yes DPSing as a healer is awaited by standard groups but if it's not possible (tank under geared or not using cd, you under geared, you not comfy with the role, anything else) just heal. In extreme case : 1. change chat log to combat windows, 2. "different play style" is a valid kick reason, and 3. 30 min penalty is not that bad.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

Trust tanks don't pull. They take any aggro you have. They also don't give you grief if you die.
In line with my first post, we are in a spot right now. New tanks, old tanks, alt tanks. I've seen Tanks in Sohm Al with i90 chests. I've seen 520 tanks in Brayflox and you know it when you start healing.

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The frustrating thing about healer for me is how easy it is to be blamed for everything. So I have a hard time distinguishing what's really my fault and what isn't.

And I tend to take criticism seriously (see: this thread).

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Originally Posted by Darkmoonrise

blue_skies, the only error you did here is to give importance to random pugs. Do what you think is appropriate to fulfil your job and ignore whining people. Yes DPSing as a healer is awaited by standard groups but if it's not possible (tank under geared or not using cd, you under geared, you not comfy with the role, anything else) just heal. In extreme case : 1. change chat log to combat windows, 2. "different play style" is a valid kick reason, and 3. 30 min penalty is not that bad.

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Thank you for the encouragement.

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Originally Posted by ninninin

Cure II is your last resort. If you know you're going to need to spam Cure II then might as well regen+medica II before start spamming it.

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Cure 2 is never last resort, Cure 2 is the standard healing spell once you get it because its so easy to regain mp as a white mage.

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Originally Posted by blue_skies

I just ran the dungeon again with real people and it was way smoother. I don't know what kind of gear the previous one had, but this one was full Augmented Scaevan. He/she didn't really even come close to dying and I could weave Holy's + other DPS.

I'm guessing the previous one just stood in literally everything or had no gear.

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If your second party went fine, chances are you're doing fine.

I had the same issue back when I leveled AST in ShB dungeons. Some tanks didn't look particularly undergeared and I'd even see Rampart and 30% mitigations on their buff list, but they would still manage to eat every oGCD in my entire kit and barely survive with Synastry + Benefic II spam. It was baffling and I never really did figure that out. Healing E12 Savage is literally easier than those 71-79 DF dungeons were.

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Originally Posted by Voidedge_Ragna

Cure 2 is never last resort, Cure 2 is the standard healing spell once you get it because its so easy to regain mp as a white mage.

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No, it's your last resort. It'll still see plenty of use, but you want to get Holy stun rolling with Asylum and Regen up and cycle through some oGCD's/lilies first before switching to Cure II once you've exhausted those and the tank needs healing. The more Holy you can safely get out, the faster the mobs die.

I cannot speak for anything high level related.
But I am not a fan of doing big pull trains, but if I do, I gotta know the dungeon properly, and I need to "test" the healer early on.
There is no point in going for big pull trains before you know the limit.

I have to do a dungeon a few times before I can feel comfortable with pulling more mobs, and I need to learn when to use tank cooldowns for the specific dungeon.
And have the proper gear level for big pulls.

So there are different factors, and I cannot speak from the healers POV.

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Originally Posted by blue_skies

I'm not sure if he was undergeared. I was 385 so I don't know if that's above/below recommended for Dohn Mheg. I wasn't able to re-apply Regen without him dying by the time the following heal would have landed.

I know he popped Rampart and Hallowed Ground. Honestly wish he didn't pop Hallowed Ground because it just made the next damage wave less predictable.

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Just want to put out there that 385 is around 20 ilvl below what Don Mheg drops.
If that was your average item level at that time (and not just 1-2 pieces), your gear was definitely lacking and barely scraping the min ilvl. The min ilvl is set fairly low for leveling dungeons and it's generally recommended to go with the preferably full set of Agumented 50/60/70 gear.
Other than that your approach to healing generally seemed fine.
Try to frontload the pull with Holy stuns and then Cycle through everything you have - using a stun mid-pull isn't as effective as early on because part of the mobs are already dead and you mitigated less damage overall. Another option is if you see 30% mitigation pop up right as the pull starts to heal it regulary and then start with the Holy spam when it's about to fall off.
Only very few tanks keep in mind that with a WHM that uses Holy in their party, 30% mitigation is mostly wasted at the start of a pull.

Much curiosity here but did the Paladin use Hollowed Ground?

I see many many tanks never use their invuln because they are "saving it for emergencies" then end up perishing because apparently that was not an emergency... Especially the fricken Paladin because they have the best invuln in the whoooooole game.

Edit; Nevermind this Mia over here apparently is still bad at the English and also reading comprehension.

Wait wait, wait a dosh garn second! Hollowed then.. Rampart? I hopes it was Hollowed then Rampart not Hollowed plus Rampart. The person above covered most of it, they should not use mitigation during holy stun. They should also be leading with Sentinel not Rampart especially if taking booku damage. Sheltron should be weaved in there too, it is amazing!

You would open with bene as your first ogcd into lily for a double weave tetra plus another thing if you have something to weave. I need to wake up the coffee to blood ratio is too low. Ohhhh also if deeps is low that can really really mess up big pulls and it is not spoken about enough.

Generally if you run through every ogcd on a healer during one single pull something is going wrong in the deeps department.