Looking to buy a Free Company

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Originally Posted by Kenky

The fact it would be illegal for them to use information obtained on Discord to punish players on other platforms. SE isn't looking for a lawsuit that could go badly, regardless of the outcome. Either SE loses a lot of money for 'compensation' fees, or Discord (for example) would have to publicly state ANY company can enforce their rules through Discords medium. Thus killing Discord entirely and violating several privacy laws worldwide.

Blizzard can't ban people for talking bad about WoW on Reddit, since Reddit isn't owned by Blizzard. A company cannot enforce their rules and regulations outside of their companys influence. It's why House-Sellers don't talk about it in-game. (Party Finder is a grey area in every game.)

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It would be "illegal" if they used it as evidence in an action against a player. Which is probably why few if not none of the players in the market discord have had actions against them. Doesn't mean they can't go into the discord to gather data as metrics to assess the health of the systems in their game.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Both of those are considered "public domain". Twitter especially since its more of a social network, rather than a service. The Twitch one, I imagine is through the loophole of "They were broadcasting content in our game that we disagree with" and since they owned what was being shown, they had legal ground. Like what happened with Asmonbald.

On Twitter, even on your "private" twitter account, you can be fired for things you say. That doesn't make it okay to do, but people still do it.. Maybe that'll change soon(tm)

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Ahh I see so don't post on social media plattforms basically?

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Originally Posted by Kenky

The fact it would be illegal for them to use information obtained on Discord to punish players on other platforms.

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LOL

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Originally Posted by Kenky

SE isn't looking for a lawsuit that could go badly, regardless of the outcome. Either SE loses a lot of money for 'compensation' fees, or Discord (for example) would have to publicly state ANY company can enforce their rules through Discords medium. Thus killing Discord entirely and violating several privacy laws worldwide.

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You'd have to prove how it would be illegal for a GM to goto discord, note the properties for sale, then watch if any change ownership (or any of the associated FCs have a leadership change).

You're basically saying they can't read publicly available feedback that's no on their site.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Blizzard can't ban people for talking bad about WoW on Reddit, since Reddit isn't owned by Blizzard.

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Yeah, SE isn't Blizzard. They don't have a Cosby Suite for starters....

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

You'd have to prove how it would be illegal for a GM to go to discord, note the properties for sale, then watch if any change ownership (or any of the associated FCs have a leadership change).

You're basically saying they can't read publicly available feedback that's no on their site.

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You should probably do a bit of reading up on basic law. (Both local and international, as headache-inducing as it is nowadays)

While SE GMs can easily open discord and take notes, they aren't dumb enough to act on the information they find, purely on the basis that any player can (and legally are allowed to do this!) ask for details on why they are denied access to the service. That would require SE (By law) to cite their evidence, which would include said Discord information and land them in a Privacy Breach. Not to mention even further fire from violating Discords own ToS. Legally, only Discord is able to enforce rules and use content ON Discord to punish its users.

Think of it like this. You go into someone elses house through their open front door. You aren't given explicit permission to enter their home, yet you do so anyways. While you're there, you find copious amounts of narcotics and other illegal stuff. But you can't go to the police and report it because you were tresspassing when you found it.

Yes, SE can easily get the info. Yes, SE could actually use it to ban people. But they're not looking for a Lawsuit.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

You should probably do a bit of reading up on basic law. (Both local and international, as headache-inducing as it is nowadays)

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And you should go read up on the FINAL FANTASY® XIV User Agreement ( https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...1&tag=users_en ), FINAL FANTASY® XIV Software License Agreement ( https://support.na.square-enix.com/r...ag=software_en ), Account Penalty Policy ( https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...&la=1&ret=rule ) and Prohibitions in Final Fantasy XIV ( https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...&la=1&ret=rule ). These are all the contracts that you have agreed to in order to create a character and play FFXIV.

Specifically these sections from the user agreement:

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10.9 Limited Liability/Remedy. TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, SQUARE ENIX AND/OR ITS AFFILIATES HAVE NO LIABILITY TO YOU WHATSOEVER, AND IN NO EVENT WILL SQUARE ENIX AND/OR ANY OF ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARY, OR AFFILIATED COMPANIES BE LIABLE FOR DAMAGES OF ANY KIND (INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, LOST PROFITS, OR LOST DATA, REGARDLESS OF THE FORESEEABILITY OF THOSE DAMAGES), ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT, YOUR USE OF THE GAME OR OTHER MATERIALS PROVIDED TO YOU BY SQUARE ENIX, REGARDLESS OF THE LEGAL THEORY. UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES WILL SQUARE ENIX BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR MORE THAN A REPLACEMENT COPY OF THE GAME, WHICH SHALL BE YOUR SOLE AND EXCLUSIVE REMEDY.

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11.1 Indemnification. You agree to indemnify and hold harmless Square Enix and its parent, subsidiaries, affiliates, partners, officers, employees and agents from any claim, demand, or loss (including reasonable attorney's fees and court costs) incurred due to your usage of the Game, your engagement in Prohibited Activities, and/or arising out of or related to content you submit, post, link to, transmit, or make available through the Game, your violation of this User Agreement, or your violation of any rights of another User.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

While SE GMs can easily open discord and take notes, they aren't dumb enough to act on the information they find, purely on the basis that any player can (and legally are allowed to do this!) ask for details on why they are denied access to the service. That would require SE (By law) to cite their evidence, which would include said Discord information and land them in a Privacy Breach. Not to mention even further fire from violating Discords own ToS. Legally, only Discord is able to enforce rules and use content ON Discord to punish its users.

Think of it like this. You go into someone elses house through their open front door. You aren't given explicit permission to enter their home, yet you do so anyways. While you're there, you find copious amounts of narcotics and other illegal stuff. But you can't go to the police and report it because you were tresspassing when you found it.

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And yet, there have been many criminals arrested because their girlfriend called the cops and told them what idiot thing their boyfriend just did. Any law enforcement entity can action off of anonymous tips, especially if the tips seem credible, and many have been arrested for such.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

Yes, SE can easily get the info. Yes, SE could actually use it to ban people. But they're not looking for a Lawsuit.

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I highly doubt a lawsuit over an account termination that (most likely) is in violation of the above contracts that all have agreed to play FFXIV would have any legal legs whatsoever. You violated the contract, you were punished by the terms you agreed to, and almost any judge is going to dismiss that lawsuit as frivolous.

The lawsuit risk is so trivial that, quite frankly, the entire "they're afraid of a lawsuit" thing is basically a red herring.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Yeah, SE isn't Blizzard. They don't have a Cosby Suite for starters....

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I get you trying to make a argument against Kenky but sorry to say, neither do/did Blizzard. They rented out hotell suits that a few developers named that, does not = company has x suite.

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Originally Posted by Sotaris

I get you trying to make a argument against Kenky but sorry to say, neither do/did Blizzard. They rented out hotell suits that a few developers named that, does not = company has x suite.

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More like a point about the current state of affairs in Blizzard that is basically turning Blizzard into Activision thanks to a whole bunch of.... "bad behavior". If you aren't aware of what's going on inside of Blizzard, nor the impact that has had on WoW over the last couple of expansions, you need to go do your research.

But, more to the point, Square Enix isn't Blizzard, they don't have a corporate culture that fosters that level of abuse (yes, those allegations are real, heart breaking, and not an SJW play to take over Blizzard), and Square Enix is (obviously) also Japanese. What may be true about lawsuits and litigation relating to in-game stuff (in this case, most likely not) for an American game dev company may not be true for a Japanese one.

To be honest, if you are going to try to go down this line of "SqUaRe EnIx WiLl GeT sUeD fOR bAnNiNg Me OfF oF dIsCorD iNfOrMaTiOn", then you need to go read all the pages I linked because you'll see that you basically don't have a legal way to actually sue SE due to what you agreed to in order to play.

Kenky has clearly not done this, otherwise they would have never made those arguments.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

Kenky has clearly not done this, otherwise they would have never made those arguments.

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Alright, you asked for this.

In your recent post, you showed two particular points in the Terms of Service with Final Fantasy XIV. Most notably, 10.9 and 11.

Both of these protect Square Enix from Legal action from its players. But I never said it would be the player who would pursue legal action. I even pointed out it would be a Privacy Breach and Discord (A company, not a person) holding them accountable for violating their own Terms of Service.

10.9 protects Square Enix from Legal action from its playerbase, stating that nothing they do will get them any compensation beyond a new copy of final fantasy (at extreme cases)

11 protects Square Enix from consultation fees and legal fees, based on the individual players actions (or inactions thereof) that leads to a denial of continued service.

Lastly, you made a deluded comparison between "Illegally obtaining information" and "Girlfriend telling" as a form of 'anonymous tip'. Even "Tips" given to the Police still need actual AND LEGALLY OBTAINED evidence to be acted on. The Police (outside of maybe a few less law-abiding law enforcements.. Yes, those exist) needs actual reason to investigate and act upon information given to them.

As a result, anonymous tips are simply classed as "rumors" until they gain legal capacity to follow up on it. They aren't going to bash down doors based on rumors and here say, especially when people are known to abuse the anonymity part of the tip-giving system. Usually for stupid reasons or outright spite.

Square Enix is an International Company nowadays and as a result, they have to play by the books. If they don't (By violating privacy regulations, a la using info they are not legally allowed to use to punish people) then they will suddenly find themselves unable to offer their product in said country.

How hard is it to fathom that Company A cannot use information on Company Bs database to punish people without Company Bs explicit consent? Go back to coming up with "better suggestions" for housing, instead of trying to sound smarter than you are. Maybe you'll be taken seriously one day and treated like a person, rather than an annoyance.

With that, I am done.

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Originally Posted by Kenky

How hard is it to fathom that Company A cannot use information on Company Bs database to punish people without Company Bs explicit consent?

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And why do you assume there isn't an existing agreement between Square Enix and Discord to share data in matters of TOS enforcement?

Why do you assume that Square Enix can't just wait until the game logs have sufficient proof based off of the Discord leads so they can take action and ban people?

We know that SE does ban people for RMT (see https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...17da61235fd9e1 ), but we don't know how they are actually detecting and generating the evidence to ban someone for RMT. It would be foolhardy to automatically rule out Discord as "safe" ground.

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Originally Posted by Almagnus1

And why do you assume there isn't an existing agreement between Square Enix and Discord to share data in matters of TOS enforcement?

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Because By Law, Discord would have to publicly state that they have a deal with Square Enix that allows them to collect data and general information on its users. If that truly were the case, then the house-sellers wouldn't use it. Similar to how someone breaking into your house isn't going to stick around when they hear the sirens coming.

Seriously, go back to talking about Housing. Law is not your strong suit.