Dark Knight Megathread

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Offers a bulletproof vest in the form of:
You have button A and button B with crossable dynamic combos that conclude on their 3rd GCD. This gives you a total of 8 decisions (AAA, AAB, ABA, ABB, BAA, BAB, BBA, BBB), as per your earlier number of weaponskills, but only requires 2 buttons.
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Alternatively, consider a open combo system.

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mn... this "Open Combo System" is actually a fairly good idea, all things considered. my own lazy idea was just for PvE to copy PvP, and GCD WeaponSkills are converted from three buttons, to one button three times... your open combo system concept is more or less a far superior similar approach, I think... ...now that I think of it, your open combo system is similar to how I would re-invent Monk... heh, now I feel like a dummy.. I did not consider that a similar approach would work for any Subclass's combos.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The point is, though, that you can form up to some 120 different decisions... off 4 buttons. No, you would not want to actually have 120 meaningful decisions available to make, even assuming over-optimistically that their gradations wouldn't all just blur across each other, but the framework for such is very much possible.

Here, the above sample allows for 64 decisions in 4 buttons, if the buffs were themselves impactful instead of merely primers. In effect, this still would mean only the complexity of about 24 decisions, outside of the highest levels of min-maxing.

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this is such a temptation for me... X'D it word not work in FFXIV, since FFXIV is just a mere glorified action game, but in a RPG setting and in a real RPG game, I could totally come up with 120 different actions, while still being valid and not redundant, in a way that could work out for fairly good in-class diversity.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Alternatively, consider a open combo system.

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but back to this lovely piece of work... may I request a sample example?, using the names of Dark Knight WeaponSkils, to give a more in-depth idea of how this would function. I would see fit to check that what I think is the same as what you thought, before I make assumptions, instead. / side-note, I ask because the [Click to Show] link seems to be broken or some thing... when I click on it, all that I see is a big blank empty box, and just a circle with the subtraction symbol on it.

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Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai

may I request a sample example?

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Again, assigning names to any framework (especially if you want it to feel perfectly fitting and organic) takes a long time, but I'll try and get it done across my work breaks.

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I ask because the [Click to Show] link seems to be broken or some thing... when I click on it, all that I see is a big blank empty box, and just a circle with the subtraction symbol on it.

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Strange. Maybe Google Pictures doesn't work well as a hosting software. I'll try once more with Google Pictures, linking it a bit differently, before trying a different host. Again, though, that was just a 30-second little sample of the very top of such a tree, and didn't yet have names applied (only placeholders, Path codes).

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and, after to take a look at it... I think(?) that I know how it would work...

say, combos are 1-2-3-4 instead of 1-2-3, and to remain at "only 4 buttons".. A, B, C, and D are each a different "1", while as you activate the combo(s), the "2", "3", and "4" versions of A, B, C, and D would be.. more or less.. "traits"?, that change the A, B, C, and D buttons into a new/different action, through "and/or" and "if" gates in the coding?

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A is Button A. B is button B. C is Button C. D is Button D. AA is button A twice. BB is button B twice. CC is Button C twice. AB is button A followed by button B. Etc., etc.

In terms of weapon skills, there are plenty of ways to go about this, but the minimum would require that you have A, A' (A buff is primed, and Button A instead becomes a spender), B, B', C, C', D, and D'.

Let's toss some names at that:

Your openers are (using all new here just to avoid assumptions/confustion) Soulstice, Descent, Breaker, and Umbra.

(If you like, imagine Soulstice as sort of a combination of Heavy Slash and the old Reprisal animation; it makes a hole in their soul. Imagine Descent to look something like the old Delirium. Breaker's a big downward Guts-esque swing. Umbra stabs forward and then cuts diagonally upward while enveloping the enemy in shadow. Or whatever.)

Once you've used Soulstice, until you use any spender (A', B', C', or D'), it becomes Souleater.
Once you've used Descent, until you use any spender (A', B', C', or D'), it becomes Force of the Fallen.
Once you've used Breaker, until you use any spender (A', B', C', or D'), it becomes Render to Ash.
Once you've used Umbra, until you use any spender (A', B', C', or D'), it becomes Dark Coil.

That's the minimum, whereby any of the spenders can gain further effects from primers not their own (Souleater from B, C, or D, while Souleater itself is basically the effect of A). Umbra on any other skill, for instance, might add Power Slash's old secondary animation, firing a burst of Shadow magic. Breaker on any other skill might use a more violent, more forceful animation atop whatever actual effect. Etc., etc.

You could rename each finisher according to its animation and effect augmentations, but for the sake of player sanity, I would not recommend it. ("Descent-Coil", "Soulshade-Render", "All-Force"/"Tri-Force", etc., should be sufficient and fairly intuitive community names.)

Again, that's just one of many, many, many possible frameworks. An "Open" combo system is merely one that does not go out of its way to constrict its flow to create non-options. Our combos, therefore, are not "Open", but literally any combo system without truly wasted space will be.

The prior example works off primers. You could instead center it around granular resources (NIN's Wind and Shadow), thematics (the more abstract Ten, Chi, and Jin, or Monk's Steel, Gale, and Lotus [a.k.a. Earth, Wind, and Fire]), or just have one's skills both affect and be affected by universal spectrums like Launch/Smite (launching one's enemy into the air or launching them downward from in the air), Draw-in/Knockback, Hot/Cold, Gravity/Levity, etc. If I were to make a framework specifically for DRK, it'd probably work around Blood and Shadow as granular resources, with a less granular aspect of Momentum (keeping that giant sword moving) and a sort of primer aspect regarding Soul, alongside using Blood Weapon as a sort of Shift Switch that'd change things up further while expending Blood (while Blood Price would do similar for many a defensive).

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no, wait... the sample in the [Click to Show] link shows up to a fifth... so combos would be 1-2-3-4-5, rather than 1-2-3... hmn.

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Again, in that sample it's just a matter of how many primers you want to prime before using any spender (i.e., using the same button a second time). There are 4 primers, so the longest a combo can run is 5 GCDs (4 primers and then any of those 4 buttons a second time to spend all priming). You can basically describe all details of that framework as simply a "one-prime-each primer-spender frame".

what ever you did, it did work... The [Click to Show] link works now, and I can see what is was supposed to show.

and, after to take a look at it... I think(?) that I know how it would work...

say, combos are 1-2-3-4 instead of 1-2-3, and to remain at "only 4 buttons".. A, B, C, and D are each a different "1", while as you activate the combo(s), the "2", "3", and "4" versions of A, B, C, and D would be.. more or less.. "traits"?, that change the A, B, C, and D buttons into a new/different action, through "and/or" and "if" gates in the coding?

no, wait... the sample in the [Click to Show] link shows up to a fifth... so combos would be 1-2-3-4-5, rather than 1-2-3... hmn.

Dark Knight is fine.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

Some current changes I want for DRK:
1.) Lower the level which TBN is obtained.
2.) Dark Mind: Add an additional effect of Reduces damage taken by 10%. So we can have something akin to Shelton for lower levels.
3.) Delirium: Lower the cooldown to 60s so it can be ready when blood weapon is.

Future identity changes:
1.) I want them to get more drain type abilities, like perhaps a shield that drains HP when the Enemy hits. And the iconic drain spell as their clemency (High MP cost/DPS loss).

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The Blackest Night at a lower is something I've been saying for a while.

They need to use the Trait system a lot more for this, on all Jobs.

The Blackest Night at level 35 but at only 10% of your health, then use a Trait at level 70 (or earlier, like level 60) to make it 20% of your health and Dark Arts.

Stalwart Soul at level 40, Trait at level 72 to add potency, MP gain and Blood gauge.

With every expansion they have gotten rid of abilities to make room for 4 new ones, so what needs to go?

Carve and Spit is kind of useless as is. It's just a slightly better Syphon Strike that's off the GCD on a 1 minute cool down.

Do something with Salted Earth and Abyssal Drain. Get rid of one and make the other better.

I like the idea of Dark Arts coming back and being used to add significant effects to abilities.

Dark Arts + Stalwart Soul leaving a field of Salted Earth for example.

When I play dark knight right now the main issue is that they got an MP powered OGCD that requires resources to manage it and usually being used 4 times per minute, while also juggling all these other OGCDs, blood weapon, and delirium. It also feels rather squishy compared to other tanks and spamming Blackest Night doesn't seem to help much. It feels like it needs one less OGCD attack and one more defense skill, like a second bubble shield, to really make it function.

DRK's selling point is that the gameplay is built around oGCDs. This is akin to asking an ice cream parlour to sell only melted ice cream to everyone because you find it too cold. Just get a crepe instead. WAR is a much better alternative if you want everything to happen on the GCD. It's also a lot more forgiving.

Yeh. In the case of oGCDs, what Dark Knight needs is one or two other oGCD that is/are used constantly, to break up the braindead Edge/Flood of Darkness/Shadow spam, into a oGCD weave rotation, that flows along with the GCD combo rotation...
Even just.. like.. reducing Abyssal Drain to 30sec CD, as it has no reason at all to be up at 60 seconds, with how underwhelming using it is, and bringing back the old far superior Salted Earth, with its 45sec CD, would be better than naught...

while, as for...

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Originally Posted by Colt47

and one more defense skill, like a second bubble shield, to really make it function.

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Dark Knight aught to ditch Rampart and have ShadowSkin return, as its replacement, and for one more defense skill, Dark Knight can also have Dark Dance return, albeit with its effect changed... I posted my idea for a remastered Dark Dance action in a different thread, where-in I said that Dark Dance could reduce damage taken, and increase parry chance, similar to GunBreakers' Camouflage...

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Originally Posted by Anahlise_Auhn_Giinslai

Dark Knight aught to ditch Rampart and have ShadowSkin return, as its replacement, and for one more defense skill, Dark Knight can also have Dark Dance return, albeit with its effect changed... I posted my idea for a remastered Dark Dance action in a different thread, where-in I said that Dark Dance could reduce damage taken, and increase parry chance, similar to GunBreakers' Camouflage...

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I kinda wish they'd just ditch Role Actions altogether. No more Rampart for all Tanks, instead we get Rampart for Paladin, Foresight for Warrior, Shadowskin for Dark Knight, and something new for Gunbreaker. No more Esuna for all Healers, instead we get Esuna for White Mage, Leeches for Scholar, Exalted Detriment for Astrologian, and something new for Sage. Yoshi-P talked about wanting to focus on Job identity going into Endwalker, maybe give Jobs unique animations rather than making them share generic Role Actions. (Maybe. Could've sworn a focus on Job identity was mentioned during the Announcement Showcase or the Keynote Address, will need to rewatch those streams. Could just be me misinterpreting things up since there was a Famitsu interview where he talked about how he wants Jobs to look even more awesome so players like their Job more.) Not like they don't have a lot of old animations floating around somewhere seeing as how Foresight, Shadowskin, Leeches, and Exalted Detriment used to be in the game and were killed for Role Actions. How the kit functions is one part of Job identity, how it looks is another part, and stuff like Rampart doesn't scream Dark Knight, it's just Tank.