Removal of Piety and Tenacity for Endwalker

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

WAR BiS uses TEN.

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So...one? lol If only one tank out of four actually puts that stat to use then there's something wrong with it.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

So...one? lol

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Yeah? If one job uses it it's not useless, unlike what OP seems to believe.

It's pretty much only used for tiering, but used nonetheless.

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Originally Posted by ZedxKayn

Yeah? If one job uses it it's not useless, unlike what OP seems to believe.

It's pretty much only used for tiering, but used nonetheless.

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If only one tank actually uses it then it is next to useless and needs some serious work.

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Originally Posted by Moonsprite

It’s hard to know how much piety is really necessary. All my healing sets this xpan have been stacked with piety. Right now, I have 2000 piety without any piety materia or using food. I really don’t need that much at all, but since there’s so much on the gear already I never need to use the materia.

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I feel like all the pie on the gear this tier is to prevent healers from having super high numbers. I had 200 less pie last tier and it didn't cause me any problems. We're not getting so much pie on gear because we need it, it's so we get less of the other attributes. It's the only logical reason I can think of.

Sure the extra pie is nice if you're in a situation like solo healing but SE doesn't balance content around having one healer in 8 man content given most people do not have a team like that.

As for tenacity I don't know. I know very little about that stat. I just know it's not super popular.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

If only one tank actually uses it then it is next to useless and needs some serious work.

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Inherently because damage is always more valuable than mitigation, I don't think TEN will ever be favorable over CRT, DRH or DET, no matter what's done to it.

I think some things can be niche or used rarely, and it's okay.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

I have the solution. Make direct hit only meld able by dps.

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This, make direct hit a DPS only stat, and then for the tank/healers, I would suggest making tenacity increase incoming healing from all sources, and piety decrease MP costs of spells, since this would make the stats a bit more valuable in the eyes of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think Piety and Tenacity need to be made worth using instead of removing them outright. But that's just my opinion.

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I think making Tenacity more desirable would be easy by making it increase damage as much as Determination, but then tanks wouldn't ever use Determination on purpose.

It's difficult to avoid players from just calculating which stat increases damage most and always using that, but one way to do it would be to make a different stat better for different purposes or even different fights.

OP here, I play mainly healer AND tank. (whm, astro, drk, pld) All of which I've built to have the lowest piety and tenacity possible.
I don't have any issues with MP regen or not being able to 'tank' new content. Just time your mp regen and defensive mitigation accordingly.
Even in savage or ultimate, if 2 or 3 people die, it usually leads to failing a dps check. Something I have very little control of anyways on these roles.
With raises... swiftcast is 60 second cooldown, by the time it's cooled-down you'll likely have some form of MP regen ability up again.
If you're hard casting a raise... someone messed up badly, and the whole party will lose DPS regardless of how much mp you have.
I have seen waaay more pugs (pick up groups) that can't even pass dps checks than I have seen healers or tanks that can't play their role.
But this is coming from someone at end game, not actively leveling.

Piety has its place because as long as you're alive it's always working where as tenacity rates are both bad and it doesn't work unless you're taking damage.

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Originally Posted by Timmyftw

OP here, I play mainly healer AND tank. (whm, astro, drk, pld) All of which I've built to have the lowest piety and tenacity possible.
I don't have any issues with MP regen or not being able to 'tank' new content.

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That's nice, not everyone can do that.

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Originally Posted by Timmyftw

Just time your mp regen and defensive mitigation accordingly.

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New fights = new timings you basically just said gitgud.

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Originally Posted by Timmyftw

Even in savage or ultimate, if 2 or 3 people die, it usually leads to failing a dps check. Something I have very little control of anyways on these roles.

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I guess we don't want to prog and see mechanics anyway since we're just going to wipe to enrage since we're so shit.

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Originally Posted by Timmyftw

With raises... swiftcast is 60 second cooldown, by the time it's cooled-down you'll likely have some form of MP regen ability up again.
If you're hard casting a raise... someone messed up badly, and the whole party will lose DPS regardless of how much mp you have.

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I guess we don't want to prog and see mechanics anyway since we're going to wipe to enrage since we're so shit. Oh you want a hard cast? Nah fam I don't roll like that.

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Originally Posted by Timmyftw

I have seen waaay more pugs (pick up groups) that can't even pass dps checks than I have seen healers or tanks that can't play their role.
But this is coming from someone at end game, not actively leveling.

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Pugs are pugs.

All in all I think you've either never done content when it was relevant before guides came out or you're more a of a green/blue dps. I understand not liking tenacity because it's essentially useless but knocking piety like that when it has its place? I don't think you're looking at the whole picture nor do you understand the relevance of prog based on how you're talking about not ressing people if you can't make a dps check.

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Originally Posted by Timmyftw

OP here, I play mainly healer AND tank. (whm, astro, drk, pld) All of which I've built to have the lowest piety and tenacity possible.
I don't have any issues with MP regen or not being able to 'tank' new content. Just time your mp regen and defensive mitigation accordingly.
Even in savage or ultimate, if 2 or 3 people die, it usually leads to failing a dps check. Something I have very little control of anyways on these roles.
With raises... swiftcast is 60 second cooldown, by the time it's cooled-down you'll likely have some form of MP regen ability up again.
If you're hard casting a raise... someone messed up badly, and the whole party will lose DPS regardless of how much mp you have.
I have seen waaay more pugs (pick up groups) that can't even pass dps checks than I have seen healers or tanks that can't play their role.
But this is coming from someone at end game, not actively leveling.

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Piety cannot be equated in it's function with tenacity. Piety is a lot more important. You can meld 0 TEN and be perfectly fine regardless of the content you're doing and the party you're with because of how the attribute works. Piety though? Not so much. You don't see "meld ten to comfort" thrown around like "meld piety to comfort". Piety to comfort is a lot more important than ANY other stat, because when you're standing around out of MP for even a Malefic after having raised 3~4 people, you're going to lose a lot more DPS than by having that extra CRT or DH meld. It's about knowing your environment, ie you won't need PIE if you're in a good static, or if you're playing with a RDM or SMN, or if you're done progging, and such.
Regardless of SC- if someone dies, you lose DPS, period, regardless of if you're hardcasting the raise or not. I don't see what this has to do with PIE. Also, you don't "time" the actions that give MP back, you use them on cooldown.