Shadowbringers Ninja Job: Complaints, Feedback, and Suggestions

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Originally Posted by wereotter

Ninja has both of those things already. Problem with the job as designed is anything like that they add in will just be even more things that it's most optimal for ninja to use in the trick attack window, so it doesn't really address the issue of things inbetween trick attacks.

Some ways to change things up could be something like a different third move in the combo that has a 20-40 second cooldown, maybe with a flank positional rather than a rear so the ninja has to move, and has the same potency of aeolian edge, but gives more ninki. They could also look into something like having that move apply an accuracy down debuff to the enemy (though I could see that being too OP if it gave the potential for tank busters to just miss entirely)

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I've said this in other threads, but I don't view the NIN burst/chill pattern as a problem that needs to be solved.

I personally like the burst phase/chill pattern of ninja, but I completely understand why others might not. Luckily, there are a bunch of other classes that have different pacing to play, which is exactly the point of having multiple classes—you can go with the playstyle you like most.

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

I've said this in other threads, but I don't view the NIN burst/chill pattern as a problem that needs to be solved.

I personally like the burst phase/chill pattern of ninja, but I completely understand why others might not. Luckily, there are a bunch of other classes that have different pacing to play, which is exactly the point of having multiple classes—you can go with the playstyle you like most.

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I agree with you in that I don't mind how it is now either. If the job was all gas like it is during trick attack windows, the job would be exhausting to play. It's nice to have 15 seconds of heavy burst and then 45 seconds of chill. Makes doing mechanics not so taxing for ninjas as for other melee jobs since they can plan around just that 15 second window when things really need to happen. My comment was more that if there is anything to do to make the job more interesting, it can't be a DOT or another high damage attack since that would just be another thing that would have to be shoved into the trick attack window. So any suggestions people want to make have to think outside that box.

This is why I suggested moves that don't have higher base potencies but grant more ninki as a possible solution for those who do want just something a little more to do inbetween trick attacks.

Wow. You spent a hell of a lot of time complaining about Ninja's class fantasy and aesthetic, drawing upon various different iterations of "Rogue" "Thief" and "Assassin" in various other franchises, and not once did you mention the Ninja job in the wider Final Fantasy franchise, most notably:

FF1: Ninja is an upgraded job to the Thief class, and can use mid-level Black Magic.
FF11: Most similar to 14s here, we now get proper Ninjutsu 'spells', that are more powerful than similar Black and White magic spells.
FF12RW: Ah Ninjutsu again, Katon, Suiton, Raijin and Doton. Elemental spells with enfeebling statuses.
FFDimensions: Dual wielding and Ninjutsu 'spells' again.

A Ninja using Ninjutsu... what a crazy idea...

This isn't "Classic Rogue" or "Assassin" this is Ninja, a Final Fantasy job class.


I'm not particularly fond of any of your mechanical suggestions either, which predominantly boil down to "consolidate everything into one button." That's a sure fire way to make the job infinitely more boring. It works fine as it is.
One thing I noticed is you don't seem to understand what to do with Meisui.
Meisui is an essential part of the rotation, you have to use it with TenChiJin.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

FF1: Ninja is an upgraded job to the Thief class, and can use mid-level Black Magic.
FF11: Most similar to 14s here, we now get proper Ninjutsu 'spells', that are more powerful than similar Black and White magic spells.
FF12RW: Ah Ninjutsu again, Katon, Suiton, Raijin and Doton. Elemental spells with enfeebling statuses.
FFDimensions: Dual wielding and Ninjutsu 'spells' again.

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There is also Edge in FF4 with Dual Wielding, Steal, Thrown Weapons and Ninjutsu spells (most of those spells are in FFXIV as various Ninjutsu and other abilities).

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Originally Posted by Ultimatecalibur

There is also Edge in FF4 with Dual Wielding, Steal, Thrown Weapons and Ninjutsu spells (most of those spells are in FFXIV as various Ninjutsu and other abilities).

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Decided to take a look at the Final Fantasy Wiki to see if there are other instances of Ninjas using magic and guess what, there are even more. Ninjas in FF5 can "throw" Flame Scrolls, Lightning Scrolls, and Water Scrolls to deal Fire, Lightning and Water damage to enemies, and Shadow can do the same thing in FF6 too. Meanwhile, Ninjas in Tactics Advance and Tactics Advance II get access to Ninjutsu where they use Flame Veil, Earth Veil, etc. I mentioned in my post back on page 1 that it's not unusual for Ninjas in other series to use Ninjutsu, but hell, forget other series, Ninjas have been popping off magic for decades in Final Fantasy.

I really don't understand the obsession people have when faced with a job they dont care for or is hard for them where they feel the need to completely "remake" the job rather than just play a different one.

just play samurai or something, dude.

Where's my kage bunshin no jutsu, though?

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Where's my kage bunshin no jutsu, though?

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its a shadowbringer skill. its called Bunshin.

Such detail from the OP indicate they've thought about it for a while.

Unfortunately, posting it to the forums all but ensures that none of it will come out in a manner that the OP will recognize. For such detail, it would be better to post a link to an optional document that could be read. There are problems with copyright that will preclude the suggestions from ever seeing the light of day in exactly the way suggested.

Tip for authors - don't read fanfiction based on your original fiction series. Tip for developers - don't read long, intricate descriptions with names/GCD rotations/cooldowns/et cetera that don't exist in-game yet. Implementing something written by another leads to sticky lawsuits.

Ninja is so smooth and easy though. I find the feedback loop very satisfying. That burst window starting with Trick Attack is just BONKERS! And I love it :D

Also the mudra is PERFECT, and I love the aspects pulled from FFXI ninja. It's very close to the FFXI iteration (FFXI ninja is a "tank" believe it or not), but the spells are very reminiscent. In FFXI you had scrolls and little origami that you used to cast your spells. Utsusemi: Ichi (3 shades), Utsusemi: Ni (5 shades) for your "shade walker". Plus sub WAR and you're the main tank my friend. Raiton, Huton, Doton, Hyoton, Suiton, are all in FFXI but literally elemental resist debuff spells in the from of scrolls you purchase. Then you had your detrimental debuff scrolls: Kurayami, Hojo, Dokumori, (blind, slow, poison, etc). You look back on Ninjas FFXIV past it held a lot of these aspects. Kiss of the Wasp, Kiss of the Viper were removed which was poison and changed the way jugulate worked (interrupt or silence). Mutilate DOT was removed. Mug increased chances of dropping items (50% more with Viper stance), Assassinate could only work on last 20% of mob), Shadow Fang proced off of spinning edge for added DOT potency.

IMO Ninja has the most identity out of any of the DPS classes, due to how iconic it is from past FF. When it launched half way through ARR 2.4 I think had it's own walk animation, jump animation, back flip, and stance which was really cool at the time. You look back on Ninjas FFXIV past it held a lot of FFXI aspects. Kiss of the Wasp, Kiss of the Viper were removed which was 20% damage buff and each stance changed the way jugulate worked (interrupt or silence). Mutilate was a DOT - removed. Mug increased chances of dropping items (50% more with Viper stance) - removed, Assassinate could only work on last 20% of mob) - removed, Shadow Fang proced off of spinning edge for added DOT potency - removed. Trick Attack used to be for Thief in FF lore, but was pulled from rouge in FF14 starting class to give to ninja and is quite literally the crux of the job.