Machinist Needs Mobility and DPS Mitigation/Helaing Option

Stopped reading at "MCH needs mobility"

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Originally Posted by Aiscence

I'll be honest but what is mch supposed to do then? I'm not asking for BLM lvl of damage but... not being the bottom tier of dmg? We have nothing going for us outside of tactician that is 120 sec, vs 90 sec for an addle. We were asking the same during SB and still got nothing. On top of that, people dont complain when warriors are top dps while having the simplest rotation, same for whm when they were the highest dps, they just ask for the other jobs to be put at the same lvl, that's what we ask.

Most high level machinist player stoppped playing it because of how casual it became, but even more, we aren't doing damage. if you have a melee, a ranged and a caster already in your party, ranged will never be your priority for the filling, you can take any other job, even a melee and cuck him to do a ranged mechanic and they will have a higher dps. Especially that jobs like smn or blm now have enough mobility to do whatever you need without much work.

Been years since people say that mobility isn't an excuse and simplicity shouldn't either, looking at others jobs.

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The problem is that SQEX removed way too many actions that were exclusives to the role. Refill the resources, extra mitigation and mechanic baiting. They didn't replaced those with anything and gutted the DPS because "mobility".
Ranged and especially MCH are in that awfull spot where they only DPS and brings nothing else to the party AND have the lowest DPS of all roles.
The ranged are Support DPS... But without support.

There's many ways to fix MCH and the other ranged:
-More mitigation, Tactician on 120s is a joke and they initially put it a 180s.
-Bring mobility to the party, not being mobile and punished for it. Who designed a strength being a tax on its first role?
-Assist healers through buffs increasing healing or granting shields.
-Role action that could cleanse Weakness debuff or simply res a target.

That and increasing damages. Mobility tax is not an excuse, especially when 5.4 and 5.5 bosses have either massive hitbox or full circle.

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Originally Posted by CKNovel

The problem is that SQEX removed way too many actions that were exclusives to the role. Refill the resources, extra mitigation and mechanic baiting. They didn't replaced those with anything and gutted the DPS because "mobility".
Ranged and especially MCH are in that awfull spot where they only DPS and brings nothing else to the party AND have the lowest DPS of all roles.
The ranged are Support DPS... But without support.

There's many ways to fix MCH and the other ranged:
-More mitigation, Tactician on 120s is a joke and they initially put it a 180s.
-Bring mobility to the party, not being mobile and punished for it. Who designed a strength being a tax on its first role?
-Assist healers through buffs increasing healing or granting shields.
-Role action that could cleanse Weakness debuff or simply res a target.

That and increasing damages. Mobility tax is not an excuse, especially when 5.4 and 5.5 bosses have either massive hitbox or full circle.

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As I said in another thread, I wouldn't even mind getting back some cast or a "ranged" positional if it allows us to get a "decent" dps back, if they want us to be the "selfish dps of the ranged" as they called us. But even during SB, I didnt have that need to bait that much? even during ucob outside of liquidfire there wasnt much.

But yeah, getting back dismantle/mana regen or something would help if they want us to be support, even tho why would we lose dps over it when other jobs like smn or mnk bring it without being punished.
On top of that, being "punished" because we allow our melee/caster to gain dps is always feel bad.

I would be ok if we had some special support, relative to mch, even if not practical, some example:
-You can target someone dead while summoning the queen, making the dead "become" the turret and being "rez" after the turret timer end.
-Give a mechanical prosthesis to someone for x seconds, allowing them to range attack or a temporary shoe boosters so casters can continue to cast while moving.

But I have little hope, as the job seems to appeal a lot to the casual audience.

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Originally Posted by Reka_Aia

Lack of self heal options

Right now MCH has one charge and that’s it.
Dancer has curing waltz which benefits the entire party and could be used in a pinch but isn’t optimal to do so.
Black mage gets mana wall.
Melee get the absurd amount of healing of bloodbath and eyes open.

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As a melee.... we have literally one more tool for self heal than ranged, and it doesn't really work that well on all jobs. Half of the ninja skillset doesn't restore health under bloodbath since it doesn't trigger off magical damage (so none of the ninki moves and none of the ninjutsu) Both the melee and the ranged physical have access to second wind, and samurai is the only one with an extra heal, and even that comes at the penalty of a DPS loss to use it, so it would be like giving up a ricochet on machinist in order to self heal.

Also bloodbath seems to primarily exist as a DPS tool rather than a healing support. I've only felt I needed to use bloodbath in order to keep doing AOE in dungeon pulls, so I don't have to move out of the mob attacks and can just heal myself back up without losing DPS. The healing you get off of it generally is too slow to be that impactful when you're fighting a single enemy, and you still really rely heavily on your actual healer to keep you standing. I think you're massively over valuing this tool... and as a ranged, you generally are able to keep up your AOE damage while also not being in mob damage circles.

My own enjoyment of Machinist stems from the fact it was such an easy class to get into and do well at. I'm jealous of Curing Waltz something fierce, but I feel our utility and ranger tax being higher is just from ease of use.

The mitigation is already shared with the other Aiming jobs... As for the heal, while nice, it's not really - vital - to have (and outside of group content you can always rely on your chocobo's heals)...

I would, however, welcome any other sort of group utility. Maybe a Defibrilator rez that costs 50 battery gauge, or an AoE paralyze debuff to be used on dungeon trash.

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Originally Posted by Aiscence

But I have little hope, as the job seems to appeal a lot to the casual audience.

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Im saddened by this aswell, the game truly doesnt need a handicap job and the ranged are fitting the bill with MCH as its flagship standard with most 5.0 mains damming BRD for being too hard and praying MCH would be just as powerful as BLM with zero nuisance . But as EW approaches in a quarter year we will see where 6.0 takes us whether it be even worse and subtracting even less to appeal to more or adding on to it and making it more fun to play but not auto mode broad.

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Originally Posted by Jirah

Im saddened by this aswell, the game truly doesnt need a handicap job and the ranged are fitting the bill with MCH as its flagship standard with most 5.0 mains damming BRD for being too hard and praying MCH would be just as powerful as BLM with zero nuisance . But as EW approaches in a quarter year we will see where 6.0 takes us whether it be even worse and subtracting even less to appeal to more or adding on to it and making it more fun to play but not auto mode broad.

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Bard doesn't seem hard. I think it's more that MCH is too damn easy to pick up. It's why I play it lol. It probably has to do with Bard being a RNG proc based class and DoT resets. You have to enjoy that kind of gameplay. But proc resets are going to determine your damage which can either be garbage or godly. When the procs are high it is rather satisfying but if you don't get them omg it sucks so bad.

MCH and DNC don't have this problem.

I think DNC has a better proc system IMO. Not by much because Fan procs aren't too high either.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

The mitigation is already shared with the other Aiming jobs... As for the heal, while nice, it's not really - vital - to have (and outside of group content you can always rely on your chocobo's heals)...

I would, however, welcome any other sort of group utility. Maybe a Defibrilator rez that costs 50 battery gauge, or an AoE paralyze debuff to be used on dungeon trash.

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Most of the time I raid in a single ranged comp and during previous EX farming I could go Samurai to avoid multiple ranged. This patch I went tank and when I'm going DPS and you have one or two other ranged, it's a pain.
You get 1k rDPS straight up removed from the team per ranged. In Diamond EX, you can have 8 people spreading at melee range and the boss just flies away when he moves. It's literally a 99.9% uptime boss.

It makes sense you can't double addle a boss.
But Dark Missionary, Paladin Wings and Heart of Light stacks together, why can't we have Tactician and Samba together? It should have been changed at the beginning of ShB.

As for the Res action, do you honestly believe MCH are going to press a button that would cost a whole Queen to res a single player? When RDM cost a GCD and a bit of mana, when SMN cost a GCD, a 60s CD and a bit of mana.
It would never be pressed unless all raisers are down, it would be too situationnal and it would lead to frustration.

"Ranged!!! RAISE WHM!!!"
"I can't I pressed the Queen button..."
"RAAAAAAAAANGED!!!!!!!"
Proceed to kick the range or disband party

Make it simple -> Role action on ranged, a 15 minutes CD, res another player and voila. Don't need more, don't want more.

The most I think MCH could do with, is some kind of debuff/crowd control skill, and even that wouldn't be strictly necessary for endgame content, just fluff for openworld/dungeons.
Otherwise, maybe MCH could do with a slight dps buff to solidify it as the selfish-dps of the physical ranged jobs.

I don't think phys ranged need a rez because we already have casters, or the ability to stack their shields, because in any content that you'd need it, you shouldn't have more than one phys ranged anyway.