How to stop Casual players leaving FF14

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Originally Posted by Duvand

I'm new to this game and really enjoying it except for one aspect RG instances.

I've seen the word toxic used a few times but I don't think that is the issue, it is more a case of miscommunication and expectations.

I'm a casual player that uses macros as I'm completely useless otherwise, I also like to move slowly through a dungeon taking in the sites, viewing all cutscenes. I can't even text properly using my PS5 pad... I must be a hard-core players worst nightmare.

And there's the rub, two individuals with different expectations in the same group.

My question for discussion is why can't a future patch allow me to tag myself as casual and others hard-core so we all know what to expect and obviously it would be better to group players of the same tags or give extra exp/rare items to the hard core player for helping the casual player and giving the hard core player something extra for being patient and not racing through the dungeon.

This I feel would create a much better experience for everyone and prevent casuals from leaving?

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When I first began playing here several years ago, I found more people didn't run through dungeons like their pants were on fire and people actually shared their hints before each boss for a minute. I enjoyed dungeons back then. Things have changed now, it's all rushed and often toxic. I only run dungeons now for the MSQ 1x period hehe.

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Originally Posted by Besame

When I first began playing here several years ago, I found more people didn't run through dungeons like their pants were on fire and people actually shared their hints before each boss for a minute. I enjoyed dungeons back then. Things have changed now, it's all rushed and often toxic. I only run dungeons now for the MSQ 1x period hehe.

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Yeah people act like rushing through everything is the norm, but it wasn't always, so I'm not sure why they act like it's been that way since launch. People didn't expect you to watch a video guide for a dungeon beforehand and large pulls were occasional, not expected. Certain players have twisted the expectations of others and drove away people who don't like it, leaving them the norm by default.

But man, just the smallest whiff of the word 'casual' brings out certain people. Funny how that always happens.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

Yeah people act like rushing through everything is the norm, but it wasn't always, so I'm not sure why they act like it's been that way since launch. People didn't expect you to watch a video guide for a dungeon beforehand and large pulls were occasional, not expected. Certain players have twisted the expectations of others and drove away people who don't like it, leaving them the norm by default.

But man, just the smallest whiff of the word 'casual' brings out certain people. Funny how that always happens.

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This is called adaptation. Way back in ARR, nobody really knew how to play the game, thus everyone played safer than necessary. Granted, even by HW big pulls were pretty frequent. Nowadays though, people have long learned that dungeons are complete jokes, and that pulling less is simply a waste of time. Three mobs basically means tanks and healers are useless as they don't do enough damage.

And no, nobody cares if you watch a guide. Dungeons are just that easy and predictable, people aren't afraid to mass pull regardless if others are new. When I can pull the entire room of Matoya's Relic and keep myself alive on WAR with just Nascent Flash. Who cares if the healer and DPS are new? I can't die.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

This is called adaptation. Way back in ARR, nobody really knew how to play the game, thus everyone played safer than necessary. Granted, even by HW big pulls were pretty frequent. Nowadays though, people have long learned that dungeons are complete jokes, and that pulling less is simply a waste of time. Three mobs basically means tanks and healers are useless as they don't do enough damage.

And no, nobody cares if you watch a guide. Dungeons are just that easy and predictable, people aren't afraid to mass pull regardless if others are new. When I can pull the entire room of Matoya's Relic and keep myself alive on WAR with just Nascent Flash. Who cares if the healer and DPS are new? I can't die.

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I know you say those things like they're all 100% true, but a lot of that is just your opinion, or based on your own experiences. I don't know about you, but I knew how to play in ARR. There wasn't exactly a lot to figure out back then. I really only ever saw big pulls start becoming more frequent starting with ARF, and it was usually only dungeons worth speedrunning for specific loot or tomes.

And yes, some people do care if you watch a guide. Because of the mentality of doing everything at max speed on the first try, if there's even a single mistake or wipe some people will get angry and question whether people even watched a guide or not. It's foolish to think every run of every duty goes perfectly, with everyone being nice, and maximum sized pulls. That mindset is what scares away players, like I said. They're pressured to conform to a certain playstyle or be berated. It's a certain way of playing that's very western and not everyone likes to play that way.

I really don't want to turn this thread into people whining about slow dungeon runs, so I'll leave it at that, and I suggest you do too.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I know you say those things like they're all 100% true, but a lot of that is just your opinion, or based on your own experiences. I don't know about you, but I knew how to play in ARR. There wasn't exactly a lot to figure out back then. I really only ever saw big pulls start becoming more frequent starting with ARF, and it was usually only dungeons worth speedrunning for specific loot or tomes.

And yes, some people do care if you watch a guide. Because of the mentality of doing everything at max speed on the first try, if there's even a single mistake or wipe some people will get angry and question whether people even watched a guide or not. It's foolish to think every run of every duty goes perfectly, with everyone being nice, and maximum sized pulls. That mindset is what scares away players, like I said. They're pressured to conform to a certain playstyle or be berated. It's a certain way of playing that's very western and not everyone likes to play that way.

I really don't want to turn this thread into people whining about slow dungeon runs, so I'll leave it at that, and I suggest you do too.

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Except, they are. In general terms, players didn't know how to play in ARR. Hence why even World First groups for Savage had healers sitting in Celeric for no reason. The game itself was new, thus people hadn't figured out all the nuances we have nowadays. I saw plenty of big pulls prior to ARF, and know people who started at the very beginning who saw people wall pulling Brayflux hard—which at the time, was the largest pull you could possibly do. It wasn't standardized the way things are today, but it certainly happened a fair bit.

Operative word being some. A very small amount. I've done well over 10,000 dungeons by this point and never once had anyone mention a guide. Dungeons as a whole are so pitifully easy nowadays, you wouldn't need one. There's linear hallways with bosses in between. I also never said anything about "perfect runs." You're putting words in my word. People complain about pulling too much, not enough, healer DPS and a whole host of things. Guides though. That just doesn't happen often enough to be worth mentioning.

People will always adapt to the more efficient method. If there isn't a reason to pull slow, why do it? Conversely, if dungeons were remotely threatening, people wouldn't be as keen to grab everything and the kitchen sink.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Except, they are. In general terms, players didn't know how to play in ARR. Hence why even World First groups for Savage had healers sitting in Celeric for no reason. The game itself was new, thus people hadn't figured out all the nuances we have nowadays. I saw plenty of big pulls prior to ARF, and know people who started at the very beginning who saw people wall pulling Brayflux hard—which at the time, was the largest pull you could possibly do. It wasn't standardized the way things are today, but it certainly happened a fair bit.

Operative word being some. A very small amount. I've done well over 10,000 dungeons by this point and never once had anyone mention a guide. Dungeons as a whole are so pitifully easy nowadays, you wouldn't need one. There's linear hallways with bosses in between. I also never said anything about "perfect runs." You're putting words in my word. People complain about pulling too much, not enough, healer DPS and a whole host of things. Guides though. That just doesn't happen often enough to be worth mentioning.

People will always adapt to the more efficient method. If there isn't a reason to pull slow, why do it? Conversely, if dungeons were remotely threatening, people wouldn't be as keen to grab everything and the kitchen sink.

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That's great, your experiences are not universal. And again, please read what I said here:

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Originally Posted by Doozer

I really don't want to turn this thread into people whining about slow dungeon runs, so I'll leave it at that, and I suggest you do too.

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Originally Posted by Doozer

That's great, your experiences are not universal. And again, please read what I said here:

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I never said they were. You, however, claimed several things which were simply incorrect. Hence my response.

And I read it. So... leave it be then?

Reading these interesting posts am I correct in pointing out that as stated ...at the Start of FF14 people did take it slower as they were learning the Dungeons etc and were a lot more patient and amicable to each other.

So now there is me who has just arrived and to be honest I don't need or want some one telling me the quests are a yo/yo grind feast or that dungeons are rubbish so pull quickly "you newb" or that I need to know my job rotation "NOW!"... as I want to experience the joys of the game like you all did and hopefully still do. So just because some one can drive now doesn’t mean they can quickly forget what it was like for a learner and bully them off the road.

I can understand the frustrations of both sides and to go back to my initial thread of how to stop this behaviour through reward as just asking won't work and this type of negative (human) behaviour does leave a sour taste in my otherwise fantastic experience of this game up to that point.

Case in point...two tanks on different occasions revecently died because they had run so far away from their healer I didn't get there in time and ended up having to pick up their teeth instead...and guess who was to blame :-)?

Well.. it kinda comes down to people being people. If you queue to be matched with random people, you can get anything. Nice people, angry people, rushed or stressed people, people that are enjoying the gameplay, others that just experience it as a chore that they 'force' themselves to go through. No matter what Square Enix does, this point won't change. As long as there are individual people being randomly put together, it's up to chance how well those people will function as a party and how well their individual styles of gameplay match each other.

Though you, as the player, have the option (not to say.. the 'power') to choose your own fate. It may be more difficult for some than for others - to socialize, find friends you enjoy playing with, or even a whole FC with people that you can enjoy the content with. Once you have that, you don't have to leave it up to chance what players you end up playing with - you can go with people that know you, that know how you play, and that are fine with that. Either by having a similar playstyle themselves, or by being willing to adjust to you. Though I guess communication may be important for that, so having the possibility to chat more easily (or maybe even using discord with voice chat) could come in handy.

In random parties, you simply have the option to adjust to the other players - or hope that they'll adjust to you. Also possible the worst case scenario that things fall apart and someone ends up leaving or getting kicked. It's not nice when these things happen, but they're always a possibility when you sign up to play with random people. While of course you can hope that Square Enix will somehow invent a system that avoids bad experiences, I honestly don't think it's likely - realistically you can achieve more by just accepting how things are, and working out options that work for you. Either by becoming better at adjusting to other people's playstyles, better at communicating and getting others to play the way you want, or just finding the right people to play with and enjoy the game together.

I consider myself a mid-tier player; not fast or slow but I do try to grind out the dungeon when I'm tanking. Set a relentless pace that chews through a dungeon without causing healer panic and not letting caster dps be perma-oom. If I see the cutscene symbol appear next to someone's name, I stop till its gone, and then we keep going. Waiting for a cutscene isn't the end of the world.