Positionals

Let's remove something that differentiates player ability and interaction! Great idea!

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Who cares about positionals in dungeons that much? Dungeons are a joke. Everyone can do them and you don´t even need any skill or that much equip for them, it´ll just take a bit longer. The classes only have to fit savage and ultimate content, nothing more!

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doublefacepalm.gif

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Originally Posted by ssunny2008

Who cares about positionals in dungeons that much? Dungeons are a joke. Everyone can do them and you don´t even need any skill or that much equip for them, it´ll just take a bit longer. The classes only have to fit savage and ultimate content, nothing more!

Positionals ARE that one thing which makes melee careers special and actually fun to play. Playing down 1 2 3 as you do as tanks without any need to care about something is boring af. Tanks have to take care for boss positioning and defs atleast, but even that is not that big deal. What would´ve melees left? Yeah, nothing... caster have to care about there positions and casts, because they´ll lose a lot of damage or die if they missplay. Melees would stay there 123, 123, 123, 123 and what else? Noone knows.

If you don´t want to deal with such stuff, go and play physical range. Especially dancer is soooo hard some lightning outlines will show you what to press next. Atleast the dancing mechanic should´ve been like the ninjutsus in some way, but hey, all have to become easier and easier.

And as others said, there is a skill called "true north". It´ll help you to hit 1 of the 3 positional spells of dragoon if you´re not able to move. Btw don´t try monk then please. I don´t want this class to get ruined more and more because players don´t have the will to learn the class and boss mechanics to play positionals properly.

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Take some fresh air. Your mix of passive-aggressiveness and narcisstic behaviour while QQing like a drama queen is getting annoying.

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

Take some fresh air. Your mix of passive-aggressiveness and narcisstic behaviour while QQing like a drama queen is getting annoying.

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He has a point though.

Mnk was super dumbed down because devs thought ppl didn't like GL upkeep.

Tbh GL falling off because of phase transitions sucked, but it was easy to maintain it otherwise.
They could have gone the BotD route and just make it really hard to fall off.

Now, all mnk has is its positionals. Remove that and its just a stripped bare minimum of a DPS.

I get accessibility is good for an mmo, but sometimes the devs go too far, and make the class so dull that said people won't play it.

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Originally Posted by SiriusSaltstice

He has a point though.

Mnk was super dumbed down because devs thought ppl didn't like GL upkeep.

Tbh GL falling off because of phase transitions sucked, but it was easy to maintain it otherwise.
They could have gone the BotD route and just make it really hard to fall off.

Now, all mnk has is its positionals. Remove that and its just a stripped bare minimum of a DPS.

I get accessibility is good for an mmo, but sometimes the devs go too far, and make the class so dull that said people won't play it.

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Honestly i think the dev's removed management of GL because once you learned how to maintain it it became a non mechanic since it was actually easy to maintain at max level and even at level 70 and so now are laying the ground work for next expansion that leads to less restrictions when it comes to their abilities

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Originally Posted by Rymi64

Honestly i think the dev's removed management of GL because once you learned how to maintain it it became a non mechanic since it was actually easy to maintain at max level and even at level 70 and so now are laying the ground work for next expansion that leads to less restrictions when it comes to their abilities

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It's legitimately hard for me to be excited about whatever supposedly future mechanic Monk is going to get when they didn't know what to do with the mechanic it had for the better part of a decade. The changes to the job from HW to SB to ShB have only been consistent in their inconsistent understanding about what the kit has ever needed.

Hell, for a good chunk of ShB, positionals WEREN'T a concern for Monk, on top of maintaining GL being a non-issue until the boss did something that prevented us from using ANY of the existing tools in the kit to maintain it! It was practically in the state people have been demanding it to be in, and yet despite also being one of the best DPS in the game, it was underplayed and people complained it was still "too hard."

People have said that if GL was part of the identity of the job, then it "wasn't ever interesting," and honestly I cannot understand that mindset in the least. I played Monk from HW, when I came to the game, all the way until ShB, when I dropped the job out of frustration over how little SE seemed care for it. So many other jobs in the game are more or less "feature complete." Monk is not, arguably never has been, and removing something from it is nowhere near exciting, much less a "good start" when said "good start" left the new additions to our kit looking preeeeeeetty sus still.

It's a similar situation to the complaints over positionals in this and other threads they've cropped up in, and the argument is still made in poor faith every single time. If you don't like positionals, there are jobs where they aren't a factor. The absolute worst thing the devs could do to melee DPS right now would be to remove positionals entirely under the "guise" of accessibility. Not every job needs to appeal to every player, especially when the game offers so many options as is.

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Originally Posted by SiriusSaltstice

I get accessibility is good for an mmo, but sometimes the devs go too far, and make the class so dull that said people won't play it.

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True. A lot of the jank that jobs used to have made for some really interesting gameplay options, and a lot of the old systems made it so that there's a lot of little things you can learn about a job while you're playing it.
Sure, GL is a easy to maintain, but so is BoTD, but that didn't result in Dragoon losing BoTD, they built on top of it and made it a core mechanic of the job. Same as Enochian.

And the worse thing is, the community actually figured out a way to actually build on top of it last expansion with TK Mnk, but they only ever implemented the concept officially in PvP(and damn that was fun). They're literally aware that it existed, but they just went "Oh well" and removed it entirely. Why couldn't they just build on top of that? It definitely adds a lot more gameplay depth to Mnk compared to Launch Mnk and current Mnk.

I understand that they removed GL from the job because they wanted to add more things to it blah blah blah. But, I'm not holding my breath for it.
I severely doubt that they'll do anything more complex than ARR Mnk with the way their job design philosophy is.
I'd love to be wrong, but from what the Famitsu interviews imply, they're not going to add another system to Mnk to replace GL. This is the current state of 6.0+ Mnk.

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Originally Posted by RinaB

Ok so before I get started I main a tank and have been leveling a dragoon. Ff14 is based around dodging aoes, boss position aoes, avoiding eye blasts etc etc its all aoes. Positionals are incredibly awkward and bad when the mechanics are based around avoidance. Let's not kid ourselves and start talking about how "well the tank needs to do xyz and position xyz" when 95% of players do not run with statics and only guild members and even then a lot of aoes in this game spawn at random spots around the boss. Take the second boss in dohn mheg for example. As a DRG you have no choice but to eat the lower potency of your abilities regardless of where the tank has him facing because of the tethers. Its a really bad idea for melee to have positionals in a game that clearly doesn't support it. As a caster I can slam everyone and everything from any angle but melee I have to hike around and pick sides? Yes as a tank main and with tank changes in 5.0 the vast majority are terrible and can't even use mitigators let alone position the boss for melee so thats also a huge problem. In big pulls tanks need to jump around aoeing and avoiding aoes so what does that do for melee? Ruins your dps contribution and that effects your whole group. Please get rid of positionals, theyre garbage.

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So let me get this straight. I just want to be clear. The only thing that makes melee anything that resembles a challenge you want to remove? The very reason they’re the more powerful jobs you want to remove? Because you’re incapable of learning how to use true north or do positionals? Please... stop

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Originally Posted by Mahoukenshi

Take some fresh air. Your mix of passive-aggressiveness and narcisstic behaviour while QQing like a drama queen is getting annoying.

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1. You don´t have to read my stuff.

2. Have you even read the open post?

It´s just nothing but a joke coming from a lack of knowledge or just lazyness. OP clearly haven´t even read all of his skills, otherwise he would use true north or aoe´s on big pulls. To get ride of positionals would make melee careers just straight up boring to play and you can´t even tell me that it´s so hard to hit the 2-3 positional skills on dragoon, samurai or ninja. Even if you fail one, who cares? It´s not that big deal to lose 50-500dps even on savage content, when you play the mechanics safety down.

Such requests just need to stop. That one class after the other is getting dumb´d down is just straight up annoying. There is no need for different classes, if different difficulties, playstyles and skills are not a thing anymore. MCH, tanks, MNK, what´s next? Blackmage without casting times? AFK summoner because the pet is doing everything alone? No more debuffs because 90% of all healers aren´t able to use Esuna anyway?

And btw SE cares about any class on nearly every boss. It´s up to the players to adjust or to try a better strategy to get the best dps out of it. The boss - class balancing is pretty good in this game compared to others.

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Originally Posted by Payotz

True. A lot of the jank that jobs used to have made for some really interesting gameplay options, and a lot of the old systems made it so that there's a lot of little things you can learn about a job while you're playing it.
Sure, GL is a easy to maintain, but so is BoTD, but that didn't result in Dragoon losing BoTD, they built on top of it and made it a core mechanic of the job. Same as Enochian.

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I'm going to disagree a bit here. They did kind of remove Breath of the Dragon. The current state is a passive, and the only way to drop it is through the same things that dropped Greased Lightning.

The relationship between Gierskogul and BOTD in HW was, to me, a great dynamic. It's the kind of positive feedback needed in a few of the jobs today, such as TK Monk, like you mentioned. The change in Stormblood is not all that different to what they did to GL in this patch.

Same with Enochian. They basically just made it a button that upgrades AF/UI rather than be its own thing to maintain, and if they're looking to cut space, it would 100% not surprise me that after consolidating BTL/Leylines that Enochian is just baked into AF/UI and removed as a button.