Why do people bother dodging aoe during trash pulls?

Personally, I try not to make the healer's life any harder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MPK

If there's 12-15 aoes in 1 wall to wall pull there's something really wrong with the party

---

No, there's something wrong with you if you think that the healer won't be busy with the tank. Just.... don't ever come into one of my parties.

because sometimes an AoE in a dungeon will carry a debuff with it (any of the soul-type enemies that have Silence) and a silenced mage does less damage than a mage that dodged an AoE

Plenty of DPS can AoE while occasionally moving and lose basically no potency. It only might be advisable to take the hit if you're hardcasting when an AoE indicator lands on you; otherwise there's no reason you can't keep up your rotation while moving.

Also, some AoE's stun you or knock you back, which will always be a DPS loss. Unless you know exactly what does what in a complete mess of AoE indicators, you should probably just move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starflake

This is simply not true. It's also not playing the game "correctly" either. If I can do 1000 DPS or 2000 DPS I will choose 2000 DPS even though I took an aoe or two to the face that nobody ever has to heal. This is exactly what it's like in Expert. In fact, I'd argue it's much more "correct" to stand in aoes if it means not dying (which you almost certainly won't) and doing the most damage because of it.

When it comes to laziness by the way, I advise you to look up a website I will not type out and check out your own performances. Being, more often than not the player with the lowest amount of buttons pressed per minute and poor uptime overall. Might have a thing or two to learn about productivity yourself ;)

---

This is entirely erroneous. Bosses just love to attempt to hit players with avoidable AoEs and then follow up with an unavoidable raidwide to finish the players off who ignored or made a mistake during the mechanic; so a regular AoE that was originally non lethal, is actually what ultimately kills the player. An aware healer 'might' save you before the raidwide goes off, but that is a resource they would not have to use if you simply just stepped out of the AoE before the cast finishes. Learning and making a habit out of dodging AoEs only benefits you in the long run if you care at all about playing not only the game correctly, but also your chosen job.

One of the challenges to playing a DPS job is maximizing your uptime along with your damage. There are one of two things that you need to take into consideration here, and that is are you a caster, or do you have abilities that lock you in place. If you do not need to cast or do not have any abilities that lock you in place there is no reason for AoEs to cause downtime because of you dodging them. If you can't learn to do this in dungeons, then don't bother going into content where those AoEs are lethal. And it's not like you have to go into EX, savage, or ultimate for that to happen. Lethal or very hard hitting AoEs can be found in NM raids, alliance raids, and even some dungeons as well. You know, casual stuff?

Even in the case that you are a caster, all of them have methods that give them mobility while keeping the GCD from drifting. If you are not exercising these skills then no, you are not playing the game correctly. Those AoE markers are an indicator that damage is going to happen there, and everything about the game teaches you to not stand in them. There are occasions where it is acceptable to stand in an AoE, but nobody should be making a habit out of it.

I would also choose your words more carefully when making assumptions. When you question someone else's productivity, what actually happens is you put your own into the spotlight. Considering that you are advocating standing in AoEs because you are not good enough to avoid them while maximizing uptime, I already know that your DPS uptime is subpar to another player capable of dodging and damaging simultaneously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starflake

This is simply not true. It's also not playing the game "correctly" either. If I can do 1000 DPS or 2000 DPS I will choose 2000 DPS even though I took an aoe or two to the face that nobody ever has to heal. This is exactly what it's like in Expert. In fact, I'd argue it's much more "correct" to stand in aoes if it means not dying (which you almost certainly won't) and doing the most damage because of it.

---

Fun facts time. Most AoEs in dungeon trash pulls are fairly close range. The classes which need to fight at close range have barely any abilities with cast times and can dodge AoEs while continuing to attack (provided the player is skilled enough to multitask). Meanwhile the classes which would be worst affected by having to dodge AoEs (casters) can fight further away so the AoEs mostly don't hit them. A BLM taking an occasional targeted AoE during a trash pull is fine. A NIN eating all the trash AoEs in Heroes' Gauntlet is not.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starflake

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website.

---

We're talking about trash pulls in dungeons though, not endgame raids. There's almost no dungeon runs on that website. I have one recorded run and Gemina has two. The people who would care to use external tools for improving their skills are already good enough to pass any dungeon run with flying colors.

Because I can dodge AOE keep my DPS up and then the Healer can spend more time DPS, so everything dies faster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gemina

This is entirely erroneous. Bosses just love to attempt to hit players with avoidable AoEs and then follow up with an unavoidable raidwide to finish the players off who ignored or made a mistake during the mechanic; so a regular AoE that was originally non lethal, is actually what ultimately kills the player. An aware healer 'might' save you before the raidwide goes off, but that is a resource they would not have to use if you simply just stepped out of the AoE before the cast finishes. Learning and making a habit out of dodging AoEs only benefits you in the long run if you care at all about playing not only the game correctly, but also your chosen job.

One of the challenges to playing a DPS job is maximizing your uptime along with your damage. There are one of two things that you need to take into consideration here, and that is are you a caster, or do you have abilities that lock you in place. If you do not need to cast or do not have any abilities that lock you in place there is no reason for AoEs to cause downtime because of you dodging them. If you can't learn to do this in dungeons, then don't bother going into content where those AoEs are lethal. And it's not like you have to go into EX, savage, or ultimate for that to happen. Lethal or very hard hitting AoEs can be found in NM raids, alliance raids, and even some dungeons as well. You know, casual stuff?

Even in the case that you are a caster, all of them have methods that give them mobility while keeping the GCD from drifting. If you are not exercising these skills then no, you are not playing the game correctly. Those AoE markers are an indicator that damage is going to happen there, and everything about the game teaches you to not stand in them. There are occasions where it is acceptable to stand in an AoE, but nobody should be making a habit out of it.

I would also choose your words more carefully when making assumptions. When you question someone else's productivity, what actually happens is you put your own into the spotlight. Considering that you are advocating standing in AoEs because you are not good enough to avoid them while maximizing uptime, I already know that your DPS uptime is subpar to another player capable of dodging and damaging simultaneously.

---

We're strictly talking about trash pulls in dungeons here. Besides, in real raids failing to dodge an aoe results in a damage down which is bad for your numbers.

Getting hit as a dps in any of our current expert dungeons will not negatively impact anyone at all. The healers don't even need to heal you because you would have your HP completely regenerated once you get to the next set of trash.

Besides, if the healer were any good they wouldn't be that busy with the tank, they would be spamming their aoe skills too and be using their OGCDs only to heal the tank (this includes raid wide ogcd heals such as assize, star, whispering dawn, and that fey blessing).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Starflake

I guesss the extra depth that website gives to the speedrunning scene, world firsts, and overall improvement of the community doesn't count. I've never in my seven years of raiding in PF and with statics seen anyone get kicked because of that website.

---

Speedrunning is either boring or extremely nerve-wrecking, especially as a tank. Imo anyway.
And where exactly did the community improve? So many people are now all about speedrunning things and doing as much damage as possible while ignoring AoEs and mechanics. And for what? To be able to brag about their stats on that website?
Keep it to your raiding and out of casual content.
Also your "impressive" stats on that website don't make you a better player than the rest but then you yourself told another player to "learn about productivity" as if you somehow are above them and they should "git gud". Oh yes, great and nice community we've got here.

Yeah for the Hero's Gauntlet I'll absolutely just stand in the AoEs on trash pulls. They're absolutely pathetic damage-wise and I can just bloodbath/second wind.