Prohibit class/job changes inside dungeons

All I get out of OP is that he is QQing.. like seriously.. I am sorry but why should we be limited to what we can do?? because you're to lazy to level another job that will increase your teams overall effectiveness..

I love being able to swap jobs, allows me to shine at 2 roles instead of one.. and there will always be the best setup for every content.. so people will still stack jobs cause thats a community driven aspect.. If you do not wish to do this, then by all means form a static that consists of 8 ppl who only have 1 job and good luck..

Don't try and limit the rest of us, cause you can't handle it nor find time to level another job.. Ive been working fulltime for years.. and I have all 50's so thats not an excuse.. it takes hours a day to get 50.. hell a weekend of leveling..

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Originally Posted by Tibian

You're completely ignorant of the rest of the forum posts, especially if you cannot see the following thread: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-and-the-Guard which has garnered 78 likes and counting to fix the rampant classism that clearly doesn't exist only in my head.

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I'm not reading another thread just to respond to yours. You should be able to adequately make your own points in your own thread.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Sure it will, especially if the fights and dungeons are created to favorite a variety of classes to PREVENT job stacking.

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If fights are designed to prevent job stacking people will find and use the most efficient set up more often, always.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Again, no idea what you're talking about here because classes/jobs still need a big boost to identities. Every class still works via "BUILD TP SPAM MOVE!" some classes can be better at AOE with decent solo target dps (BLM/War) while others should excel at single target DPS with marginal AOE dps (Monk/Bard). A good and well rounded group should have massive advantages over stacking a particular class.

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That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. However, it's all conjecture and I happen to think it's wrong. DRG is DRG, WHM is WHM and BLM is BLM; they're segregated now. Giving them "an identity boost" (such is denying all cross class abilities) will not prevent class stacking at all, just make the game stupid hard to play. The inconvenience of being unable to switch jobs in a dungeon would pale in the absolute frustration of, say, a WHM being completely unable to cast attack spells. Fortunately, SE does not tailor content to 1 or 2 forum opinions.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

You're right on this one. Nobody is straight up "required" to level up. The peer pressure is simply efficiency caused by how the fights are created. This measure is a countermeasure to alleviate the pseudo-forced requirement to level up every job.

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It won't work. It will have 0 effect. People will always play the most effective part, class stacking or no.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Again, I agree with limitations. I've heard and read several complaints where groups do not want to take a person with only Monk, or only BLM, or only WAR to dungeons. This is pretty restrictive and cuts accessibility. If all people are doing are speed runs, it is limiting the accessibility for those that want to do the dungeons. Finding a linkshell that doesn't "exclude" people isn't also a viable option, so please don't state it in subsequent posts as a valid retort.

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I don't know why this isn't a viable option. After all, I'm in one. :)

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Originally Posted by Tibian

I don't understand this because every other MMO manages to have dungeons that have a wide berth of content without multiple class/job switches during the run. It allows developers to come up with innovative fights rather than just worry about resistances and damage types.

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Why are you switching classes? This is a party/community issue not the dungeon problem. There's a place for every class in a party provided that you know how to play your job.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

Clearly ignorant of party play. People want to do speed runs. Don't punish them for having leveled up the classes they only want to play.

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Clearly, I'm not the one having any issues. If that means ignorance, it truly is bliss. Don't punish me cause I'm succeeding.

You know, and I may have just not seen them all, but, if classes locked (not jobs you can still mnk > pug > mnk and what have you) AND there were sections of a dungeon that had to be cleared for full drops, not speed runs, but rather more like toto-rak in that you have to clear multiple sections to reach the "real" boss.
Unlike toto-rak having each section infested with mobs w/ resistances to different things:
Section 1: mobs absorb magic, strong to piercing, weak to blunt
Section 2: mobs immune to slashing, strong to blunt, weak to peircing
and so on, for let's see, to cover all classes in a fairish way, 5 sections should be plenty
You can optimize parties all you want, but you'll need at least 1 of each dmg type to clear fast, there goes class stacking.
It's no longer a matter of <20mins for last chest(let it be an achievement w/e)
It's now about surving the hordes of mobs that your BLM can't always nuke down, or you MRD can't effectively tank because mobs are immune to slashing dmg...

Derailing class stacking isn't that hard, it's just a matter of making content that requires variety in a party, and for the inevitable "what if the whm/blm/pld/w\e dc's" allowing class changes but not discipline changes would probably be a bit better. So you go in as a DoW you will stay DoW but you can change freely between them, this really only aleviates the stacking issue a bit since you could still go w/ 4 DoW and 4DoM and they switch to what's useful atm, but it still helps a bit.

Since the general tone of everything on these here forums is against class stacking and speed running rewards, not saying don't make speed doable, just don't reward people for it. If you can run a raid in 13 mins good on, you'll get more in than me in any period of time and thus have more opportunities to get drops, but don't punish me because my diverse group takes 28 mins for the same run w/ the same result except the time because we wanted to play jobs we actually enjoy.

Also don't get me wrong, I'm all for trying to out parse people, I'm all for getting the best gear out, and I'm all for bragging rights, hell make dungeon run like BCNMs in XI announce the best run time or w/e, but I shouldn't be punished for not being the fastest group to clear something, except things being timed which is reasonable I shouldn't get 22 hrs to clear a dungeon but again shouldn't be required to beat a certain time just to get the final chest. Think Nyzul or BCNM 15 mins for 5 floors or 29 mins the result was the same, you get w/e would drop for the clear because you cleared it not cause your time was better than avg.

Edit: I don't mean I want Nyzul or BCNM, just using it as an example of what I mean by time limits.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

You know, and I may have just not seen them all, but, if classes locked (not jobs you can still mnk > pug > mnk and what have you) AND there were sections of a dungeon that had to be cleared for full drops, not speed runs, but rather more like toto-rak in that you have to clear multiple sections to reach the "real" boss.

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This is more reasonable. And I think we're going to get something like that in Crystal Tower.

I don't know if our handicapped server can handle this kind of complex long running content. That's why there's so much copy paste in the content we're getting. I'm not surprised if for Garuda, we'll be hiding in Safe Spots again. (Uh oh! Here comes the Big Attack, pop lolSentinal.)

I think 2.0 will offer much better challenges with regard to content.

I'm willing to bet they've learned from this horrid mistake, and from the combination of FFXI as a learning tool, this mistake, and the feedback from all of us.
I will trust SE one more again, they've made a few mistakes recently, but they did back in the 90's too and they managed to recover from those, hell even FFXIII-2 was a substantial improvement, I wasn't pissed when I pre-ordered it w/ the hardcover guide, I trust this will manage to make the pre-ordered CE worth more than just the little leatherbound journal and the security key that I already had one of from XI.

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Originally Posted by Tibian

I thought about point two as a suggestion earlier on before I posted this. In the end I opted against it. If you increase Ranged accuracy via Bard, people will just stack ranged. If you increase MP regeneration via BLM, people will just stack BLM.

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Even if the buff is not stackable ?

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It also mandates that you should have a party of "every" class. I don't want to see a static one dimensional party of "PLD/WAR/BLM/BRD/WHM/MNK/DRG/Random Job," although it would still be more desirable than job stacking.

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Well lets not forget that in future more classes will become available lending new aura's and play styles and diversity to party mechanics.

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Bullet point three is also a suggestion, but I am not sure the removed bonuses would matter that much. I know on Coincounter it might cause an issue... but other fights I can't see this as a viable option.

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Well that's a balancing issue then isn't it, its down to SE to make fights more dependant on that bonus, so if it were taken away people would think twice.

Which is kind of my whole point with the aura's per class, as i said though I'm not really a fan of punishing players, I think it would be better to reward them for making a diverse party.

I think that job party buffs or "auras" as it seems to be catching on is one of the best ideas to ever come out of the forums.

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Originally Posted by Deltara

I think that job party buffs or "auras" as it seems to be catching on is one of the best ideas to ever come out of the forums.

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Indeed. Think about the Role Bonuses from FFXIII. COM gives a damage boost to itself and allies, SEN gives damage reduction and so on. The only thing that should be different in FFXIV is that they shouldn't be stackable like they are in FFXIII to encourage job diversity.

As long as the buffs aren't too specific (i.e. BLM shouldn't just increase magic damage - it should do something that benefits a wide array of jobs) it could work exceptionally well.

Very interesting suggestion here! We made sure to pass along your discussion, suggestions and ideas to Yoshida to get his thoughts. He told us that for 2.0 they are discussing on imposing some restrictions on class/jobs (or the ability to change once you have entered) on certain raids/dungeons. He reiterated that these restrictions would not be set for all raids/dungeons, however.

PS. I apologize for the wait!

Thanks Rukkirii for the update. I think that sounds like a happy medium.