Remove Reduction of Loot for others in Savage.

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Originally Posted by testname

That is my point

I would like to replay raids, with no abolishing coffers from people who didn't roll this week

I don't understand, why it cant be like this

And Why SE made this system in first place ( since they do nothing about sellers of content )

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Thats because selling clears is not against tos IF its not for real money, while some of it is, you'd be surprised how many clears you can buy with just gil. I will have to clarify that a bit though, piloted runs (when someone uses your account to clear a fight for you) are against the tos, but they are not illegal because selling runs is illegal, but because account sharing is. If thats not happening, and you pay in gil or other in game goodies, its a similar transaction as to giving a crafter items and they will craft an item for you for a fee.

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Originally Posted by Saccharin

I can't see that being popular. WoW did that with their Mythic raiders and it prevented people funnelling loot to their mates. Sorry... 'worthy' participants.

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Many dislike personal loot because it prevents teams from prioritising who gets gear. So if someone is a tad undergeared or you just want to beef out your raid dps more...well you can't funnel the loot to where you feel it would be best used. And if someone is unlucky they can go ages without any loot dropping for them and what can you do about it? Very little.

Personal loot also means getting unwanted gear. Just because you're lucky enough to get loot doesn't mean it's actually something you want or need. Imagine you need a helm upgrade and you keep stuff for other slots instead, while someone else in your team has the helm you want and they don't want it...but you can't trade. The loot is wasted.

Personal loot is great for pugs because that's an environment where loot drama can happen so easily with the current system. It's awful for organised teams who typically try to be somewhat strategic with who gets loot and when.

Sure the old loot system in WoW did get abused a lot by people giving loot to their buddies instead of where it was the most beneficial...but is there any loot system that is both free of abuse and downsides? I don't think so. Also you can leave a raid team that distributes loot poorly, but you can't escape a personal loot system.

I prefer the current system to personal loot. It's very frustrating to watch good gear go to someone who doesn't even want it while someone else who needs it didn't get a drop.

As for the topic OP brought up, I think SE should do away with the chest limitations and let individual players be able to loot only on their first kill of the week. That way they can help their buddies or just do savage for fun as much as they like without their first kill affecting anyone else.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

All content available in game, including pvp should award us with highest ilvl gear and have different stats so we could customize a little.

Either this or what we have now, 1 day grind in 1 week and 6 days doing nothing.

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Agreed, there should be as many avenues for ilvl farm as possible. PvP, Dungeons, Crafted, Tomes, Raids, and “Raids” (those trials they think are Raids) should all be viable pursuits

Aren't you already not able to roll on anything on your second round? I am 99% that was the case last time I did second kill with character that had gotten it's first weekly kill. It was by Raid Finder back in Deltascape, and I was not planning on robbing those people that one chest but it happened :/
Need/Greed were greyed out, I could only pass. Without changing this it would not make your gearing faster, which is already perfect.

I'd love some kind of to this, from that helper perspective. No better way to encourage people to give savage chance than to help them to their first kill of current tier.

quit trying to bring single player jrpg gearing systems into an mmo. plz no. I don't want to have to hunt my best in slot helmet if it's locked behind PVP.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

Congrats you're very good at playing the game. This is where you take yoshi-p's advice and go play other things then come back later.

the devs absolutely do not want people gearing up quickly.

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Congratulations on your lack of simple reading comprehension.... that was not the point of this post at all I even said keep the loot lockout to 1 clear per week just don't reduce the chests for the other people if we are going in to help others or just to enjoy the content. Sorry if you were unable to grasp that pretty simple concept.
Also this is an MMO, I should have enough actual progression content or be able to redo content to keep me going for more than a day a week, the weekly caps in this game are insanely restrictive and then we have this system where the weekly cap also prevents you from playing with others because it screws over THEIR weekly cap. That's just stupid.

Telling me to go play another game does not improve this game what-so-ever, and if you have no interest in improving this game (which is seems you don't) feel free to exit this thread.

I should be allowed to re-do the content or help others without screwing them over. I don't need another bit of loot or incentive to do it, I just need for others to not get punished for me enjoying the game, or content that I want to do.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

Congratulations on your lack of simple reading comprehension.... that was not the point of this post at all I even said keep the loot lockout to 1 clear per week just don't reduce the chests for the other people if we are going in to help others or just to enjoy the content. Sorry if you were unable to grasp that pretty simple concept.
Also this is an MMO, I should have enough actual progression content or be able to redo content to keep me going for more than a day a week, the weekly caps in this game are insanely restrictive and then we have this system where the weekly cap also prevents you from playing with others because it screws over THEIR weekly cap. That's just stupid.

Telling me to go play another game does not improve this game what-so-ever, and if you have no interest in improving this game (which is seems you don't) feel free to exit this thread.

I should be allowed to re-do the content or help others without screwing them over. I don't need another bit of loot or incentive to do it, I just need for others to not get punished for me enjoying the game, or content that I want to do.

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well golly gee I had no idea you were so altruistic and magnanimous that you would want to replay things so much after getting your own stuff and carry the mewling newbs through the savage without being a run seller/RMT party clear person.

again relaxing chest rules means people getting gear too quickly. if patches were closer together i could see them relaxing this but they have a schedule for a reason. they have the data to back up their reasoning. farm to your content when savage gets unlocked. that's why they unlock it.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

Congratulations on your lack of simple reading comprehension.... that was not the point of this post at all I even said keep the loot lockout to 1 clear per week just don't reduce the chests for the other people if we are going in to help others or just to enjoy the content. Sorry if you were unable to grasp that pretty simple concept.
Also this is an MMO, I should have enough actual progression content or be able to redo content to keep me going for more than a day a week, the weekly caps in this game are insanely restrictive and then we have this system where the weekly cap also prevents you from playing with others because it screws over THEIR weekly cap. That's just stupid.

Telling me to go play another game does not improve this game what-so-ever, and if you have no interest in improving this game (which is seems you don't) feel free to exit this thread.

I should be allowed to re-do the content or help others without screwing them over. I don't need another bit of loot or incentive to do it, I just need for others to not get punished for me enjoying the game, or content that I want to do.

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I already mentioned this a different thread on this subject, but the system is intentionally designed to slow down and control the rate at which players earn gear. Without lockouts, People could get a full set of Edenchoir Gear in a theoretical day. and then what? They log out, some potentially staying logged out until the next content is released. Not exactly something that a company that wants you to stay subbed so you keep giving them money wants. Without making things insane grinds, there is no way the FF14 team can create content faster than the playerbase can consume it, it's just a simple fact of reality. So this MMO and many others use grinds or weekly/daily lockouts to extend longevity, since it puts more control on the developer's side of things.

The systems are simply to extend content longevity; nothing more, nothing less. It's a necessary evil on the developer's side. Of course, you could enjoy a theoretical alternative where they turn Savage into an ultra grind, quadrupling the prices of all book costs, making chests drop with 1-2% odds to make sure that the gear distribution stays comparatively the same as the previous system on a weekly basis. But I have a feeling there'd be a sizeable chunk of the playerbase that would be crying for a return to a guaranteed system soon after :rolleyes:

Without substituting it for another system or penalty that creates a weekly controlled distribution of gear the devs tune for, they won't ever release the penalty lockout system. And frankly, I enjoy the guaranteed loot too much for them to try something else.

Also, let's do an example to showcase why the devs wouldn't want to remove the penalty for helping others.

In the current system, for every 8 players that clear savage, no more than 2 chests are being given out. In a system where there's a weekly lockout but no penalty for helping, let's see how a team could abuse and exploit it to its limit:
7 players get on alts, 1 gets on main. they clear, the 1 main gets both chests.
that 1 main switches to an alt, one of the other alts switches to main, clear again. that main gets 2 chests.
repeat until you've literally octuple'd the amount of chests being given out in a week. Literally 8x as many chests than the developers tuned for. and given the natural overarching response of players to seek the path of optimization, it would quickly become very popular, and any team not doing it would be putting itself at a gigantic disadvantage.

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Originally Posted by DrWho2010

well golly gee I had no idea you were so altruistic and magnanimous that you would want to replay things so much after getting your own stuff and carry the mewling newbs through the savage without being a run seller/RMT party clear person.

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Again, absolutely zero reading comprehension or common sense on your part its like you want to argue for the sake of arguing not because you have a valid point. No one said I was altruistic or carrying newbs, but I have friends in an FC who want to do it, or god forbid I actually enjoy doing the content and want to do it more than once a week without screwing over someones loot boxes.

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again relaxing chest rules means people getting gear too quickly. if patches were closer together i could see them relaxing this but they have a schedule for a reason. they have the data to back up their reasoning. farm to your content when savage gets unlocked. that's why they unlock it.

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See, this could be a valid point, so lets open with this one instead of a sarcastic comment without even reading first.
This is only in the case where you get 7 people with a clear trying to funnel gear onto one person which is going to be the minority of people doing this, so are we saying we punish the majority for the minority that would abuse the system?

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Originally Posted by Jamein

god forbid I actually enjoy doing the content and want to do it more than once a week without screwing over someones loot boxes.

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Masochistic.

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Originally Posted by Jamein

so are we saying we punish the majority for the minority that would abuse the system?

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Yes. anytime you open a system to abuse people can and will abuse the heck out of it. it's the bad apples that ruin the whole bunch. it's why we can't have nice things. it's all the other sayings that are there for situations like this. you cannot let people game the system because they will do so ad nauseum.