Discussion about recast timers

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

A simple change would be to have all the 15m abilities share cooldowns across jobs. So if you're on BLM and your Burst is available, if you switch to WHM you're Benediction will be available. If you've got 10 minutes left on your Benediction and you switch to MNK, you'll have 10 minutes left on your Hundred Fists.

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That's the fix I want to see since the inclusion of 15-min abilities. The 5-min recast for Raise doesn't bother me, really. It's the 15-min recasts that make my heart cry.

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Originally Posted by Coglin

Wow, fly off the handle much?
Yeah smart guy, its called a macro...my macro that changes from whatever class I am to bard.
I do one touch macro from WHM/CNJ to ARC/BRD. I have a job/class/gear change macro for job/class changes, and gear sets.

That being said, it doesn't change the fact that CNJ-ARC uses the exact same raise, but it restarts the CD timer when you switch.
CNJ-ARC-BRD still uses the the same raise, it still resets every change. Not to mention, I didn't realize i needed to explain to you, the that to go from CNJ-BRD you needed to be ARC in between. Which does not change the fact that the same rais restes to the full CD when changing.

No need to toss profanities out at others because your having comprehension difficulties.

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Yes, your macro does this: Change MH to some bow, then /job which changes you to BRD. So even if it's, for you, a one-button thing, it's still old class/job >> ARC >> BRD. That is precisely the only reason why I included ARC in the list of classes/jobs you'd have to have Raise equipped.

And yes, recasts timers are still shared across everything as long as it's equipped on each class or job you go through until you reach your destination.

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Originally Posted by MeowyWowie

I wasn't mocking you. It was a serious question.

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Maybe you should assess your serious question. Why did you ask me how many other games let you change jobs?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the only real issues i have is when changing to a craft to repair gear for others it resets my timer. if i have the level required it'd be nice to just have a repair slot in your gear that doesn't change your class in the field, but allows you to make repairs without changing off your job.

the only other thing i'd like to see is all of the jobs 15 min abilities be on a set timer. if i have 3:30 left on my timer for benediction and change to black mage i'd still have 3:30 on my burst instead of the entire 15. it would stop abuse that way since i would have already went through the 15 min cooldown even though it was through a combination of 2 different jobs.



i haven't tested to see if it's still the same, but it was if you had raise in different spots in your action bar it would reset even if it was on the other class. like if cnj had it in spot 1 and arc had it in spot 10 it would reset, but if they both had it in spot 1 it didn't reset. that could be part of the reason some says it resets and others say it doesn't.

try testing that and see if that helps, but like i said it may have been changed, but an idea to try.

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^^^ I think we have a winner here. I vote this for compromise. Although I don't see why recast timers shouldn't be abolished.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

yeah, i'm not a programmer so idk how hard that'd be to implement either, but it seems like something that would be a good compromise. it would stop the abuse by making people wait the 15 minutes even if it was across multiple classes.

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I am a programmer, and it would take maybe 1 day to change how the timers work. They probably could just add variables to the object that stores actions and abilities to implement darkstarpoet's suggestion, or it would be even faster to just abolish the recast timers entirely.

Maybe have all your 15 minute abilities share a timer? Would that fix the problem? Have all abilities "remember timers" when you switch jobs? You on BRD with raise and you raise someone you switch to WHM and it still has the cool down from when you did it on BRD. Vice Versa. You can always switch to WHM do a quick Chainspell Raise and switch back to another class without having it be such a chore. The only thing is make sure you cant do it in battle which I agree with.

For AV I start as BRD and switch to MNK for the malboro and it sucks to have EVERYTHING on cooldown it doesn't make sense to be able to change jobs on the fly if you are useless for at least a couple of minutes while waiting for CD's. Might as well have a Moogle do it for us.

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Originally Posted by XStruckX

... it doesn't make sense to be able to change jobs on the fly if you are useless for at least a couple of minutes while waiting for CD's. Might as well have a Moogle do it for us.

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Agreed sir!

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Originally Posted by Neptune

I am a programmer, and it would take maybe 1 day to change how the timers work. They probably could just add variables to the object that stores actions and abilities to implement darkstarpoet's suggestion, or it would be even faster to just abolish the recast timers entirely.

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A global timer on some ability's would defiantly be a good thing. Though i do wonder what kind of jiggering they would have to do server side to get it to work right for every player.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

^^^ I think we have a winner here. I vote this for compromise. Although I don't see why recast timers shouldn't be abolished.

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the only reason i am kinda skiddish about the removing the timers completely is that it could lead to abuse if the timers reset each time you changed. say if everytime you went white mage your benediction was ready. it could lead to the situation where a mage uses it and then just unequips the job stone and then equips it again. they technically changed off the job and would become the norm for things like av. yes, you could not change during battle, but having benediction for each and every encounter in there would make it too easy.

it could also lead to a group that have all 50's just use a job for one room until they used their 15 minute ability and then change to another so they had it the next as well. it would allow the high level parties with multiple 50's to just bum rush dungeons and massively abuse the system.

that is why i mentioned the shared cooldowns. it would stop the abuse because if you used one 15 minute then you couldn't use the next for 15 minutes no matter what job you went to because the timer would be across each class/job. i could just imagine the party shouts if each time you switched a job you were instantly ready to use the ability "Party 4/8 All 50 Battle Classes Requires /tell".

Recast timers are a necessary measure against multi-class/job abuse. That much is obvious.

I only agree with 15m skills, since every job has exactly one, having a shared timer. Everything else should continue to start with cool down if it wasn't previously on your bar, as it already does.

Found this while searching stuffs.

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I'm sorry to bump this thread but we received information that fits here. ^_^

Actions that have been reported with long recast timers, such as rebirth, will maintain their same recast timers when classes are changed.

We will let you know when we decide on a timetable for implementation.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

the only reason i am kinda skiddish about the removing the timers completely is that it could lead to abuse if the timers reset each time you changed. say if everytime you went white mage your benediction was ready. it could lead to the situation where a mage uses it and then just unequips the job stone and then equips it again. they technically changed off the job and would become the norm for things like av. yes, you could not change during battle, but having benediction for each and every encounter in there would make it too easy.

it could also lead to a group that have all 50's just use a job for one room until they used their 15 minute ability and then change to another so they had it the next as well. it would allow the high level parties with multiple 50's to just bum rush dungeons and massively abuse the system.

that is why i mentioned the shared cooldowns. it would stop the abuse because if you used one 15 minute then you couldn't use the next for 15 minutes no matter what job you went to because the timer would be across each class/job. i could just imagine the party shouts if each time you switched a job you were instantly ready to use the ability "Party 4/8 All 50 Battle Classes Requires /tell".

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Another great point. Although in FFXI jobs didn't share 2 hour timers. Whether they're shared 15 mins or "remembered" 15 mins, both would be a lot better than what we have now. I wouldn't consider it "abuse" if you can multi-class your way out of situations with 15 minute abilities. How long did it take to level all those classes to 50, unlock the jobs, do the quests, etc? Is it appropriate to think of all that hard work as not justifying some kind of reward, like the use of all of your abilities?

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Maybe you should assess your serious question. Why did you ask me how many other games let you change jobs?

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Because of your "Good Samaritan" example.

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Originally Posted by Neptune

Do you feel like you're abusing yourself if you see a dead person on the side of the road and decide to change jobs so you can raise them and then have to wait.. 5 minutes? I have a feeling if the Good Samaritan had to wait 5 minutes to raise someone he might have been remembered as the Cursing Samaritan.

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How many games let you change your job on one character to begin with? There are probably only a handful of them, FFXI being the most recognized, at least within this community.

Consider the same situation in FFXI. You would have to return to your mog house, change job, return to the dead person, raise, return to mog house, change back to the job you were playing, then continue on your way again. Not only does it take you the same amount of time, or perhaps even longer to raise this person, but you'll also likely use a warp cudgel and an OP warp / teleport.

Of the few games that allow multiple jobs/classes per character, how many let you change your job right on the spot? None that I can think of. So, would you rather

A. Do all of those steps above (which probably takes even longer than 5 minutes).

or

B. Change your job right on the spot and just wait for 5 minutes for the recast timer to reset?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a big fan of recast timers either, especially on weapon skills. But, with the way the game is designed, something's gotta give. Fresh recast timers on job changes "fit" with the armory system. The only thing I would change is to have our 15 min skills share 1 timer (like 2 hours in FFXI).