Can we get choices that really matter and have a effect?

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Funnily enough there are replacement characters that actually fill both the role of Wrex, and Mordin. :)

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Not in Mass Effect 3.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Not in Mass Effect 3.

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These two are their replacements that fill the exact same role in the story.

https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Padok_Wiks

https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Urdnot_Wreav

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Originally Posted by LolitaBansheeMeru

As in his words Its not murder when they aren't really alive now is it? After all all those "murders" were just broken glass pieces so its not murder wen they don't really exist now is it? Beside if they are tampered by zodiark then the scions are highly tampered by the other and have free thought so the other would also be true and I mean it can be debated either way so it has the doors wide open for us to have a choice of who we believe and who we want to follow. For One i believe the Ascians sometimes you have to docreate evil to bring great good and that means that the Ascians ends does justify their means for he reason is pure in nature.

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Doesn't make you any less wrong though. You have to provide some proof of the Scions, or us for that matter, being tempered though. Remember Her first words to us.

The whole point of this expansion was that while our lives do not matter to the Ascians. Our lives matter to us. To Alphinaud, Alisaie, Ryne, Y'shtola, Urianger, Thancred. To all the peoples of the Source, the First and all the shards that are left. That's not even going into that they may have made it impossible to make their world whole again thanks to their utter incompetence turning the 13th Shard into a literal demon dimension and nearly doing the same to the first. This tells me that they are just bumbling through not even giving a thought to what the heck they are doing or how many "Inferior" lives they snuff out. They're like psychopathic Mr. Magoo's at this point. It's not even like they are all that either. Gaius has killed, probably lesser, Ascians. And You are 2/3 on the Unsundered ones.

As much as I like Emet I have to admit his big speech in Amaurot falls flat on it's butt for 2 reasons
1) His point that the "Inferior races fight and War and really totally hate each other" falls flat because, unless he's forgotten, him and his are responsible for 90% of the conflicts on the source that we know of. And judging by the meddling on the first, the other shards too. Did he also forget that he himself was responsible for 2 of the most destructive, expansionist and warlike empires the source had ever known.

2) His talking about how "we wouldn't sacrifice half of ours to save the other" is outright BTFO'd by the Crystal Exarch even being there. He literally comes from a future whos people sacrificed themselves to give the people of another possible future a second chance.

It's also why his broken glass analogy doesn't even make sense. Have you tried to fix a broken mirror? It's nigh impossible.

Since you ended on a philosophical point I'll end it on one of my own. The Ends Don't Justify The Means.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Funnily enough there are replacement characters that actually fill both the role of Wrex, and Mordin. :)

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Mass Effect is actually a masterclass in the illusion of consequence. There can be side-content which appears (or doesn't appear) based on the choices you make, but the broad arcs of the series remain the same no matter what choices you make. But the details within those arcs can different wildly. As noted, if Wrex and Mordin are gone, their roles are filled by others... but it still feels like your choice had a consequence, because these characters are gone.

That's hard to do well, and it's what SquareEnix would need to do in order to make it manageable. Otherwise, a few expansions in, compounded choice after choice could lead to storylines that were fairly divergent. They'd need the consequence to feel weighty but be illusory. Now, one of the most effective ways to do that is to close off—or open up—side quests based on those choices; if entire quests are based around the outcome of your choice, it feels like that choice has weight.

But I imagine that making entire quest chains only available to people based on dialogue options (or other choices) would not be a popular choice in an MMO...

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Originally Posted by Packetdancer

Mass Effect is actually a masterclass in the illusion of consequence. There can be side-content which appears (or doesn't appear) based on the choices you make, but the broad arcs of the series remain the same no matter what choices you make. But the details within those arcs can different wildly. As noted, if Wrex and Mordin are gone, their roles are filled by others... but it still feels like your choice had a consequence, because these characters are gone.

That's hard to do well, and it's what SquareEnix would need to do in order to make it manageable. Otherwise, a few expansions in, compounded choice after choice could lead to storylines that were fairly divergent. They'd need the consequence to feel weighty but be illusory. Now, one of the most effective ways to do that is to close off—or open up—side quests based on those choices; if entire quests are based around the outcome of your choice, it feels like that choice has weight.

But I imagine that making entire quest chains only available to people based on dialogue options (or other choices) would not be a popular choice in an MMO...

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Yeah, thats what I was laughing about. I don't think it would work at all in FFXIV unless it was literally the finale where there wouldn't ever be anymore story expansions, for reasons listed in other previous posts. All our character does is nod their head anyway!

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

These two are their replacements that fill the exact same role in the story.

https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Padok_Wiks

https://masseffect.fandom.com/wiki/Urdnot_Wreav

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No, if you shoot Mordin or Wrex in Mass Effect 3, their replacements will not appear in the game. Their characters and their respective roles are dead by the point.

Look, another delusional lalafell.

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Originally Posted by Edax

No, if you shoot Mordin or Wrex in Mass Effect 3, their replacements will not appear in the game. Their characters and their respective roles are dead by the point.

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What exactly are you debating? Mass Effect 3 is a continuation of Mass Effect 1/2. Wrex can be killed in one and Mordin in 2. When either of these occur, wrex gets replaced by a character who fulfills the exact same literal role in the story, and in mass effect 3 wrex's replacement appears again, that fulfills wrex's role again to the exact detail. You can literally end mordin's replacement just like you can end mordin. The end state you are stating is changed in name of that character only, the results are all the same, meaning the choices ultimately do not matter in the overarching story. In any of the games. As stated earlier, "illusion of choice". If you keep Mordin and Wrex alive to fulfill their roles in 3 the only differences are voice lines, not the story. Now, if we are talking about 'The Citadel' DLC, wrex and other classic character appearances can change the feeling of it there, since that whole DLC is just fan service.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

What exactly are you debating? Mass Effect 3 is a continuation of Mass Effect 1/2. Wrex can be killed in one and Mordin in 2. When either of these occur, wrex gets replaced by a character who fulfills the exact same literal role in the story, and in mass effect 3 wrex's replacement appears again, that fulfills wrex's role again to the exact detail. You can literally end mordin's replacement just like you can end mordin. The end state you are stating is changed in name of that character only, the results are all the same, meaning the choices ultimately do not matter in the overarching story. In any of the games. As stated earlier, "illusion of choice". If you keep Mordin and Wrex alive to fulfill their roles in 3 the only differences are voice lines, not the story. Now, if we are talking about 'The Citadel' DLC, wrex and other classic character appearances can change the feeling of it there, since that whole DLC is just fan service.

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I wasn't talking about Mass Effect 1 and 2. I was talking about the decisions you make in Mass Effect 3. The sequence of events I referred to, and the cutscenes I linked are purely from Mass Effect 3.

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Originally Posted by Edax

Well sure, when you shoot Mordin in the back and then you murder Wrex to cover up your crimes, they all stay dead. There's no going back from that.

Murdering Mordin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVuMXjpANmw
Murdering Wrex
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbF76Sswj-Q

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Originally Posted by Edax

I wasn't talking about Mass Effect 1 and 2. I was talking about the decisions you make in Mass Effect 3. The sequence of events I referred to, and the cutscenes I linked are purely from Mass Effect 3.

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Mass Effect 3 also ended the original trilogy's storyline, meaning there would be no further story needed to be made to account for the consequences of doing so. In the games where that needed to be considered, (ME1 and ME2) they just replaced them with functional equivalents. And it is this 2nd scenario that most fits FFXIV and that would be improbable to keep up with.